Just wow...

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dwellselectric

dwellselectric

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Cape Cod, Massachusetts
It's not bad enough they jumped off a 12/2 kitchen circuit with a 14/2 to add these two outlets. But to use a low voltage ring?!
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PetrosA

PetrosA

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Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I've done many, many boxes in block and brick with just a cold chisel or a cold chisel and a 1/2" hammer drill, so there's no excuse for that. I've gotten smart over the years and own a Hilti combi hammer now ;)
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
PetrosA said:
I've done many, many boxes in block and brick with just a cold chisel or a cold chisel and a 1/2" hammer drill, so there's no excuse for that. I've gotten smart over the years and own a Hilti combi hammer now ;)
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Looks like cinder block so I bet part of it is hollow- should be easy
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

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Location
NE Arkansas
Just to stir the pot ....

I recently learned that this method of installing devices without a box is considered perfectly proper in Australia. Since Oz is a modern place, sharing many of our traditions, I am given pause.

Are we perhaps too demanding here? Could the NEC be wrong?
 
iwire

iwire

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renosteinke said:
Just to stir the pot ....

I recently learned that this method of installing devices without a box is considered perfectly proper in Australia. Since Oz is a modern place, sharing many of our traditions, I am given pause.

Are we perhaps too demanding here? Could the NEC be wrong?
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I guess I would want to know the common building methods being used.

If the walls are non-combustible construction I don't see a safety issue.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
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CA
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Building inspector
iwire said:
I guess I would want to know the common building methods being used.

If the walls are non-combustible construction I don't see a safety issue.
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Your funny! Dry wall is considered combustible, low combustibility but still combustible. What is the drywall nailed to, wood or metal studs?
 
kwired

kwired

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Location
NE Nebraska
acrwc10 said:
Your funny! Dry wall is considered combustible, low combustibility but still combustible. What is the drywall nailed to, wood or metal studs?
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Drywall is a little understandable, but what about stone, concrete, metal ...

I do think we go a little far with some requirements, like the allowed 1/4 inch set back in non combustible material. If I have a stone or tile added to a wall finish and need to use box extensions -- I can use listed non-metallic extensions that in reality are more combustible than the stone or tile I am trying to do solve a non existent problem with.:roll:
 
iwire

iwire

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acrwc10 said:
Your funny! Dry wall is considered combustible,
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By who?:huh:

It is used to make fire barriers, if you think drywall is more combustible than say a plastic device box I am at a loss.

What is the drywall nailed to, wood or metal studs?
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That was what I was asking, Reno brought up Australia and I don't know what they use to build homes with. As far as I know they could be metal framing or masonry.

I would lose no sleep at all making a splice inside a masonry void and truth be told I may have a time or two. (Outside wall sconces on existing red brick buildings without a box, splices made in canopy.)
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

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Location
NE Arkansas
The Australian pics I saw appeared to show construction comparable to ours - either drywall over studs, or drywall on firring strips over masonry (block) walls. Some of the cavities were also stuffed with faced fiberglass.

I thank you all for granting me the courtesy of not dismissing my report out of hand. I'm reasonably sure my source was not pulling my leg - though Aussies have been known to tell some whoppers! The pictures are found on "the other" major electrical contractors' forum. If a mod asks, I'll post a link.

To my mind, wiring without boxes is simple heresy. I don't even like doing CATV that way, and mobile home methods horrify me. (Bet you'd never guess I learned the trade in Chicago :D ) Still, the Auie pics have me wondering ....

Drywall is combustible, eh? Toss a chunk into your BBQ this weekend, and report on what happens.
 
G

GoldDigger

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Placerville, CA, USA
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renosteinke said:
Drywall is combustible, eh? Toss a chunk into your BBQ this weekend, and report on what happens.
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Most often the paper burns, and that may spread flame from one point on the surface to another.
It does discourage fire from penetrating its thickness though, since the gypsum will hold together for awhile without the paper.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
renosteinke said:
Drywall is combustible, eh? Toss a chunk into your BBQ this weekend, and report on what happens.
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Not quite that simple, you need to tell us how thick the drywall needs to be and/or how long you want it to last in that fire before it becomes compromised enough it would let the fire spread beyond a boundary made from the drywall.

As said the paper will burn off, the gypsum will withstand the fire for some time, how long will depend on how hot the fire is and how thick the gypsum is, for fire resistance in construction this is more for allowing occupants egress time then it is for preventing fire from consuming the structure. But it also does help slow down the consumption of the structure in hopes that either fire sprinklers have a chance to lessen the fire or the fire department gets there soon enough to start slowing the fire down. A brick, block or concrete wall will not necessarily stop fire from spreading either, but will slow down the rate that it spreads.
 
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