In-Sure Wire Connectors

[delectric123]

Has anyone experienced problems with those In-Sure wire connectors from Ideal? Somebody told me they can loose their connection. I find that hard to believe since its UL Listed. I assume UL underwent rigorous tests before accepting those connectors. They make pig-tailing outlets a lot faster and easier. Though I don't think I would trust them in corrosive environments.

 

[smmiller506]

I'm just testing them out on one light fixture and the wires can come out pretty easily if you spin the wire in the connector, which happens when you are pushing everything inside the junction box to close it up. Spinning the wire can destroy the conductor. Also, the conductor is round, and the locking flap in the connector is flat, which means there is not a lot of contact area for energy to pass through, which can cause overheating eventually. Handy, yes, but not as reliable as wire nuts.

 

[delectric123]

I've had the same thoughts, but how could UL have passed them? I thought they had stringent standards?

 

[iwire]

The company I work for install tens of thousands of them each year. We are not getting call backs because of them.


As far as UL, UL listing is not an assurance of quality only proof a product means certain safety standards.

 

[kwired]

I'm just testing them out on one light fixture and the wires can come out pretty easily if you spin the wire in the connector, which happens when you are pushing everything inside the junction box to close it up. Spinning the wire can destroy the conductor. Also, the conductor is round, and the locking flap in the connector is flat, which means there is not a lot of contact area for energy to pass through, which can cause overheating eventually. Handy, yes, but not as reliable as wire nuts.

There are other connecting devices that have somewhat limited contact area as well. The key to success of the connection is just how easily is that contact compromised?



There are many that will not use a "stab in" connection of a receptacle but will use similar designed connections elsewhere quite frequently. Couple things to remember between the two, first is they are not the same thing, one seems to have better spring pressure to maintain the connection, a weak connection at a cord cap can transfer heat to the stab in connection further compromising it, and with receptacles you are generally putting pressure on the entering conductor when you push the device and attached conductors into the box, with poke in equivalents to wire nuts you tuck all your connections into the box in a different manner then you do a receptacle and it doesn't normally provide the same kind of compromising pressure on the connection.

 

[Nutmegger]

Like others said: a UL listing is not a guarantee, neither is it a substitute for assurance brought only by manufacturer honestly and thoroughly analyzing the real-life performance of the product over a long period of time and making necessary design adjustments.

There were products that carried a UL listing, that were anything but safe (Federal Pacific anyone?)

All in all, the rule is: cheap, easy, reliable: pick any two

 

[DBoone]

Has anyone experienced problems with those In-Sure wire connectors from Ideal? Somebody told me they can loose their connection. I find that hard to believe since its UL Listed. I assume UL underwent rigorous tests before accepting those connectors. They make pig-tailing outlets a lot faster and easier. Though I don't think I would trust them in corrosive environments.

I use them all the time. I do still use wirenuts on my EGCs. I figure IF there was a problem with the connection from a quick connector on EGCs you wouldn't know it until somebody got zapped whereas you would probably notice a bad connection for the regular circuit conductors and could investigate and fix the problem. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[DBoone]

I'm just testing them out on one light fixture and the wires can come out pretty easily if you spin the wire in the connector, which happens when you are pushing everything inside the junction box to close it up. Spinning the wire can destroy the conductor. Also, the conductor is round, and the locking flap in the connector is flat, which means there is not a lot of contact area for energy to pass through, which can cause overheating eventually. Handy, yes, but not as reliable as wire nuts.

I don't have any with me right at this moment but I'm pretty sure that the spring holds the conductor against another, larger, flat piece of metal and I bet the total contact area between conductor and that piece of metal is as big as the tab that connects the screws on a receptacle.

 

[kwired]

I use them all the time. I do still use wirenuts on my EGCs. I figure IF there was a problem with the connection from a quick connector on EGCs you wouldn't know it until somebody got zapped whereas you would probably notice a bad connection for the regular circuit conductors and could investigate and fix the problem. Maybe that's just me though.

Condition of other circuit conductors does not have to be the same as the condition of EGC's and many times will not be the same.

The EGC and connections doesn't heat and cool with load changes like the normal current carrying conductor connections will because they only carry current during abnormal conditions, so unless there is other factors like mechanical or corrosion issues they are not exactly subject to the same conditions.

 

[delectric123]

Like others said: a UL listing is not a guarantee, neither is it a substitute for assurance brought only by manufacturer honestly and thoroughly analyzing the real-life performance of the product over a long period of time and making necessary design adjustments.

There were products that carried a UL listing, that were anything but safe (Federal Pacific anyone?)

All in all, the rule is: cheap, easy, reliable: pick any two

Would the in-sure connectors fall under easy and reliable?:?

 

[Nutmegger]

Would the in-sure connectors fall under easy and reliable?:?

Probably, and even then the formula still holds: one for one, in-sure connectors are more expensive than wire nuts.. provided you consider in-sure's reliable.

 

[kwired]

Probably, and even then the formula still holds: one for one, in-sure connectors are more expensive than wire nuts.. provided you consider in-sure's reliable.

Product may be more expensive, but what about average installed cost?

Then you may increase risk of carpal tunnel syndrome when twisting all those wire nuts as well, which is a longer term hidden cost, though use of many items in this trade do help contribute to that problem, something tells me the push in connector maybe is a little less of a threat then twisting something is.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I've had the same thoughts, but how could UL have passed them? I thought they had stringent standards?

Yea and I have some land I can sell you in florida and I promise it is not in a flood plain.......:lol:

 

[smmiller506]

Now that I think about it, I remember putting some in a receptacle box after putting in a new receptacle. I didn't have to twist anything around to get everything to fit, I just bent the wiring in place, and they held well enough. But in that lighting box, I had to twist stuff around to get everything to fit (that box is a wiring nightmare - 6 cables, plus pigtails to the light, and everything was just grouped together, twisted, soldered, and wrapped in tape), which is why I wasn't as fond of them because the conductors were twisting in the connector.

 

[electricguy61]

Here we go again............:happysad:

My company has installed thousands of the WAGO brand wire connectors. Never had a failure when PROPERLY installed, aka: use the little window to ensure the wire goes entirely into the connector.

They are a tremendous labor saving device, make it easier to push conductors into boxes, less strain on your wrists and fingers (all the things said above). We've been debating them on this forum for years, yet how many failures have been noted from the naysayers? Most of us have seen wirenuts fail as well, WHEN NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED.

FYI: we do not use them for stranded wire, as it's too easy to get whiskers out of them. But for residential & mc on commercial, we love them.

 

[K8MHZ]

Here we go again............:happysad:

My company has installed thousands of the WAGO brand wire connectors. Never had a failure when PROPERLY installed, aka: use the little window to ensure the wire goes entirely into the connector.

They are a tremendous labor saving device, make it easier to push conductors into boxes, less strain on your wrists and fingers (all the things said above). We've been debating them on this forum for years, yet how many failures have been noted from the naysayers? Most of us have seen wirenuts fail as well, WHEN NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED.

FYI: we do not use them for stranded wire, as it's too easy to get whiskers out of them. But for residential & mc on commercial, we love them.

I'm on the fence, still.

How many years have you been installing the push in connectors?

 

[electricguy61]

I'm on the fence, still.

How many years have you been installing the push in connectors?

I would guess ten years or so.

 

[K8MHZ]

I would guess ten years or so.

Thank you.