Bronze split type ground clamps.

[stew]

Was told recently by an inspector to remove and replace the Bronze split type clamp on a ground rod because it was not installed per listing and the only thing acceptable is an acorn??? Mind you this is a Raco c-11bdag1r bronze clamp . Its the one that comes with the little paper tag "approved for rebar3-8" " suitable for drict burial in earth or concrete" Designed of course for many grounding applications. Now I cant use it for a clamp on a grounding electrode. ? HMMM Exisiting rod was of course 18 inches above ground and the installer way back when of course used his 16 lb mall to drive it so the head is all mushroomed. Used my Ground pounder and drove it home! Then used a split connector cause an acorn wouldnt go over the mushroom from the original to the new supplemental.! Nope gotta take it off he says and replace it with an acorn. lolol. Really? Passed it of course but said make sure and come back and change that. I agreed with a nod and my fingers crossed behinfd my back. lol. Unless someone can prove me wrong it stays just likes its supposed to.
do you suppuse this is a new requirement that only he knows about?

 

[K8MHZ]

Was told recently by an inspector to remove and replace the Bronze split type clamp on a ground rod because it was not installed per listing and the only thing acceptable is an acorn??? Mind you this is a Raco c-11bdag1r bronze clamp . Its the one that comes with the little paper tag "approved for rebar3-8" " suitable for drict burial in earth or concrete" Designed of course for many grounding applications. Now I cant use it for a clamp on a grounding electrode. ? HMMM Exisiting rod was of course 18 inches above ground and the installer way back when of course used his 16 lb mall to drive it so the head is all mushroomed. Used my Ground pounder and drove it home! Then used a split connector cause an acorn wouldnt go over the mushroom from the original to the new supplemental.! Nope gotta take it off he says and replace it with an acorn. lolol. Really? Passed it of course but said make sure and come back and change that. I agreed with a nod and my fingers crossed behinfd my back. lol. Unless someone can prove me wrong it stays just likes its supposed to.
do you suppuse this is a new requirement that only he knows about?

What diameter ground rod were you using? If you were using 1/2 or 5/8 rod with a connector listed for a 3/8" rod, I could see that as a reason to not allow it. Also, ground rods are not re-bar.

 

[K8MHZ]

Also, 250.70 (2) specifies that the clamp be listed and of the bolted type. A split clamp is not a bolted type, like an 'acorn' clamp.

 

[infinity]

Rebar 3-8 would be trade sizes 3/8" though 1". As stated rebar is not a ground rod although in theory it would probably work.

 

[K8MHZ]

Rebar 3-8 would be trade sizes 3/8" though 1". As stated rebar is not a ground rod although in theory it would probably work.

I never knew that about re-bar size. This is a great place to learn stuff!!

'In theory' a couple of hose clamps would work, too.

 

[GoldDigger]

Get out your grinder and remove the mushroom.

 

[jrannis]

Maybe cad weld a piece of rebar to the ground rod move the clamp to the rebar and call him back.

 

[cpinetree]

Burndy C11K-D series clamps

Burndy C11K-D series clamps

Was told recently by an inspector to remove and replace the Bronze split type clamp on a ground rod because it was not installed per listing and the only thing acceptable is an acorn??? Mind you this is a Raco c-11bdag1r bronze clamp . Its the one that comes with the little paper tag "approved for rebar3-8" " suitable for drict burial in earth or concrete" Designed of course for many grounding applications. Now I cant use it for a clamp on a grounding electrode. ? HMMM Exisiting rod was of course 18 inches above ground and the installer way back when of course used his 16 lb mall to drive it so the head is all mushroomed. Used my Ground pounder and drove it home! Then used a split connector cause an acorn wouldnt go over the mushroom from the original to the new supplemental.! Nope gotta take it off he says and replace it with an acorn. lolol. Really? Passed it of course but said make sure and come back and change that. I agreed with a nod and my fingers crossed behinfd my back. lol. Unless someone can prove me wrong it stays just likes its supposed to.
do you suppuse this is a new requirement that only he knows about?

I didn't find the raco listing but chances are it is also listed for rods like the Burndy + NSI products -

Burndy # C11K16D and C11K17D link to pdf: http://www.burndy.com/docs/default-source/PDF%27s/grounding-counter-mat.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Listed for rebar, copper pipe, direct burial, and ground rods

also

NSI G-1-S DBR is listed for rods, rebar, water pipe etc. link to PDF: http://www.nsi-sales.com/pdf/eGrounding.pdf

 

[beanland]

Ground Rod Clamps

Ground Rod Clamps

Installing a component for only the manufacturer listed application is required. But, I have seen many many bolted connections that work loose and the grounding wire is no longer bonded to the ground rod. On commercial jobs, I spec irreversible crimps or cadwelded ground rod connections.

 

[al hildenbrand]

do you suppuse this is a new requirement that only he knows about?

Also, 250.70 (2) specifies that the clamp be listed and of the bolted type. A split clamp is not a bolted type, like an 'acorn' clamp.

Get out your grinder and remove the mushroom.

Nicely done. Exactly the answer to the OP question, in my opinion.

 

[stew]

Found an on line ul site thats really informative. " bronze ground clamps for bare wire. for making connection between copper grounding conductor,galvanized water pipe,copper water tubing or copper ground rod, sizes 1/2 thru 1".Also for steel rebar sizes 5 and 6. for driect burial in earth and concrete. Cats Nos 2504,2506,cb11bag1r.c11dbag1r. Tag also says rebar 3/6 suitible for direct burial. . This is of course a bolted connection. The 1/4 20 stainelss bolts on eithe side are bolts . Cant get a nicer smooth bolted connection to a ground rod than this or a pipe.IMHO the ispector is wrong and connot document anything more than what the official UL listing says. This come from KDER.E195975 Grounding and bonding equipment page of the UL Online Certifications Directory I just found !. Nice site.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I've used them for many years. The type listed for concrete or direct burial.

 

[stew]

I have also used these clamps for years under certain conditions and have never been told they were not useable as a ground rod clamp. If they can be used on a rusty ,crusty rebar , then ceratinly they can be used on a nice round 5/8 ground rod!! This call is totally made up out of thin air in my not so humble opinion. RIDICULOUS!!!

 

[K8MHZ]

Found an on line ul site thats really informative. " bronze ground clamps for bare wire. for making connection between copper grounding conductor,galvanized water pipe,copper water tubing or copper ground rod, sizes 1/2 thru 1".Also for steel rebar sizes 5 and 6. for driect burial in earth and concrete. Cats Nos 2504,2506,cb11bag1r.c11dbag1r. Tag also says rebar 3/6 suitible for direct burial. . This is of course a bolted connection. The 1/4 20 stainelss bolts on eithe side are bolts . Cant get a nicer smooth bolted connection to a ground rod than this or a pipe.IMHO the ispector is wrong and connot document anything more than what the official UL listing says. This come from KDER.E195975 Grounding and bonding equipment page of the UL Online Certifications Directory I just found !. Nice site.

Can you post a link to the UL site?

Also, are the 'bolts' really screws? All the clamps with 1/4-20 threads I have seen used screws, not bolts.

 

[curt swartz]

Can you post a link to the UL site?

Also, are the 'bolts' really screws? All the clamps with 1/4-20 threads I have seen used screws, not bolts.

How are you defining a bolt vs a screw? The only difference between the fasteners used on acorn clamps and standard ground clamps is the size.

 

[K8MHZ]

How are you defining a bolt vs a screw? The only difference between the fasteners used on acorn clamps and standard ground clamps is the size.

Bolt = Installed and removed using a wrench.

Screw = Installed and removed using a screwdriver.

But that's just my definition.

 

[kwired]

Bolt = Installed and removed using a wrench.

Screw = Installed and removed using a screwdriver.

But that's just my definition.

It may be easier to apply more torque to your definition of a bolt, but then the listing instructions of the connector device should state a tightening torque as well. If it is not that practical to apply enough torque to a particular "screw" then a "bolt" should have been used, otherwise maybe the listed purposes shouldn't include a ground rod application

 

[GoldDigger]

Screw = wood screw, sheet metal screw, machine screw, etc
Bolt = machine threaded, with wrench head except for variations like carriage bolt.
The one that messes up the whole distinction is the lag screw, which really should be a lag bolt.
Screw heads include Allen, square, clutch, etc. but all internal slot/socket.

Tapatalk!

 

[kwired]

Screw = wood screw, sheet metal screw, machine screw, etc
Bolt = machine threaded, with wrench head except for variations like carriage bolt.
The one that messes up the whole distinction is the lag screw, which really should be a lag bolt.
Screw heads include Allen, square, clutch, etc. but all internal slot/socket.

Tapatalk!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw



Text from within that link:

There is no universally accepted distinction between a screw and a bolt. Machinery's Handbook describes the distinction as follows:

A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. An externally threaded fastener which is prevented from being turned during assembly and which can be tightened or released only by torquing a nut is a bolt. (Example: round head bolts, track bolts, plow bolts.) An externally threaded fastener that has thread form which prohibits assembly with a nut having a straight thread of multiple pitch length is a screw. (Example: wood screws, tapping screws.)
​

 

[K8MHZ]

OK, just to get this straight, a bolt has screw threads:

http://www.engineersedge.com/screw_threads_chart.htm

but a screw does not.


:?