Dining room SABC really?

[mopowr steve]

Just curious how many of us have really seen the dining room used for cooking appliances to warrant SABC. Seems to me I've seen more kitchen counters/islands riddled with slow cookers/etc or even garages and basements for family gatherings. Someday would like to see it removed from code.

 

[480sparky]

I've seen toasters & coffee makers on the DR table. I've also seen buffets in the DR with slow cookers, crock pots, woks, hot plates.................

I doubt you're gonna see this requirement go away.

 

[kwired]

Just curious how many of us have really seen the dining room used for cooking appliances to warrant SABC. Seems to me I've seen more kitchen counters/islands riddled with slow cookers/etc or even garages and basements for family gatherings. Someday would like to see it removed from code.

If anything based on what you said, we maybe need to consider expanding the SABC's to supply more areas.

Remember the SABC's are also required to serve pantry, breakfast room or other similar areas as well, but also remember the minimum number of SABC's required is only two (per kitchen). So by code you could have a 1000 square foot kitchen and supply it with just two SABC's. And it would also be acceptable to supply the dining room, breakfast room or pantry receptacles from those same two circuits.

 

[darekelec]

There was a similiar thread some time ago and many guys stated that they entertain the whole family on meetings with food and fun. In NYC I rarely see people dining in and this rule pisses me off. I don't know if the customer is going to place a dining table in some area.

 

[kwired]

There was a similiar thread some time ago and many guys stated that they entertain the whole family on meetings with food and fun. In NYC I rarely see people dining in and this rule pisses me off. I don't know if the customer is going to place a dining table in some area.

When I was a kid we went to my grandparents for Thanksgiving or other holidays, or just family celebrations of some sort and had people eating in the dining room, living room, back utility room, basement, maybe even outside if weather was nice.

 

[ActionDave]

Right now my dining table is where the living room used to be and the living room furniture is there instead. The entertainment center is plugged into the dining SABC. Never plugged anything into it before.

 

[iwire]

Just curious how many of us have really seen the dining room used for cooking appliances to warrant SABC. Seems to me I've seen more kitchen counters/islands riddled with slow cookers/etc or even garages and basements for family gatherings. Someday would like to see it removed from code.

All the time at moms house, coffee makers, warming plates etc.

 

[jrannis]

You should stop by my place on fondue night.
Imagine, sitting around the Nuwave induction precision cooktop.

http://www.nuwavepic.com/#back

And forgetting which receptacle is on the appliance circuit.

I just remembered that I swapped my living room and dining room areas.

I now store a small extension cord with the thing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

We never have anything plugged in our dining room receptacles even tho I have a separate circuit however the NEC cannot guess how everyone is going to use their room. Since many people do have hot plates etc. it seems wise that it should be a small appliance branch circuit.

 

[mwm1752]

When in business I put the dining room on its own circuit though it was not required.

 

[kwired]

When in business I put the dining room on its own circuit though it was not required.

And in some places it may be desired to have more then 1 circuit in dining room if they commonly are using heated appliances in there.

 

[Ponchik]

The NEC is the minimum requirement and not necessarily the best design.

 

[mopowr steve]

We never have anything plugged in our dining room receptacles even tho I have a separate circuit however the NEC cannot guess how everyone is going to use their room. Since many people do have hot plates etc. it seems wise that it should be a small appliance branch circuit.

This is what gets me how can the NEC actually guess that the dining room would have appliances plugged in. In an area where family/friends gather to Dine not neccesarily cook. Just as any other area of the house. I'm with you though also never having plugged anything in our dining room, Mine, Parents, and so far the residential jobs I've done just by the way there layed out.

 

[Ponchik]

I believe the reason is "Generally Speaking" the dining room is used to eat in and "generally" that is where the coffee pot, the crock pot, the food warmer and other kitchen appliances may be plugged in especially when there is a party or a large gathering.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe the reason is "Generally Speaking" the dining room is used to eat in and "generally" that is where the coffee pot, the crock pot, the food warmer and other kitchen appliances may be plugged in especially when there is a party or a large gathering.

Exactly... if it is commonly used then that would be the norm. You cannot predict every situation but they want to cover the situations that have a high probability

 

[mopowr steve]

Exactly... if it is commonly used then that would be the norm. You cannot predict every situation but they want to cover the situations that have a high probability

It's high probability that in our extended family that either the garage or basement gets used for larger gatherings and food warming Ex. Turkey Day. Most people I know aren't going to put appliances on there dining room furniture.
I guess what also gets me is if I'm reading it right the dining room Circuit cannot feed the light in that room or pick up a patio receptacle. Now that seems ridiculous especially when this room tends to be in a corner of the house where no other rooms share a wall to pick off a circuit to feed light or exterior recept. Or can I?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It's high probability that in our extended family that either the garage or basement gets used for larger gatherings and food warming Ex. Turkey Day. Most people I know aren't going to put appliances on there dining room furniture.
I guess what also gets me is if I'm reading it right the dining room Circuit cannot feed the light in that room or pick up a patio receptacle. Now that seems ridiculous especially when this room tends to be in a corner of the house where no other rooms share a wall to pick off a circuit to feed light or exterior recept. Or can I?

Well you can complain and not like it but you could write a proposal to get it changed. My bet it will never fly as you would need substantiation that people don't plug things in their dining rooms. I agree most do not but they cannot make a rule that says if the home owner uses their room this way...

 

[darekelec]

Everybody is right!
Now imagine a circuit tripped on overload condition in the middle of christmas party.
NYC should have it's amendment to ban this rule.
Apartments here barely fit tenants. Either dining room is a size of a closet or it is an area with table adjacent to kitchen and warm food would be passed thru kitchen opening. Poor people can't afford to have dining room and richer people dine out.
Extra expense for HO for nothing and hassle for electricians to figure out where the table may end up.
I can't connect it to kitchen SABC because if there is no table that would be a violation.
nuts!