Running a grounding electrode conductor thru hole in LB

[mopowr steve]

Say for instance One takes a SEU cable runs it in a PVC "sleeve and LB" on the exterior of a home for "supplemental protection" (does not extend completely to panel) then also drills a 1/4" hole in the bottom of the LB for drainage of any possible water (which is allowed by NEC) and say uses that drain hole to also run the GEC out from the main panel so not to drill another hole thru the sill. Does anybody really see a problem with that? After all it seems to be the best way I've come up with to eliminate the countless number of services which are damaged by water either from the jacket of SE cable deteriorating or condensation following a complete conduit install (although I realize if one would seal the conduit entries this should not happen) had one fella on the fire dept (which just does a ground check in my area and after 25 years doing it this way was OK with the other fellas) tell me I can't run the ground wire thru the LB. Doesn't seem to have a reason outside of the fact he can't think "outside of the box". What's that going to hurt? Saves another hole in the side of the house that the siding people have to deal with. IMO makes a nice clean looking job.
Interested to hear your take on this as I know I'm not the only one who does this. Just how much of the NEC applies to this added protection of PVC and how it is installed/utilized. I know the fire dept is our only AHJ but they also do not have any formal electrical training I think they picked up doing this in the 1920's thinking all fires were related to grounding issues.
Please give me your thoughts on this!

 

[Cavie]

Not a problem as far as I can tell. The pvc seems for protection only as you describe it.

 

[mopowr steve]

How about some more responses to this. Does no one want to touch this? Would really love to hear what others think about this good or bad.

 

[ActionDave]

I'm confused. Where does the GEC go after it leaves the hole in the LB? Where do as it start before it gets to the LB?

 

[infinity]

IMO the GEC can be in the same hole through the structure as the LB but not within the LB. Are LB's permitted to be field modified to allow a conductor to enter and exit them?

 

[kwired]

IMO the GEC can be in the same hole through the structure as the LB but not within the LB. Are LB's permitted to be field modified to allow a conductor to enter and exit them?

Many people claim that modification is not permitted - I will admit to doing it many times though. Even if not exiting the conduit body with a GEC I have drilled many weep holes in conduit bodies over the years. The trade off is having water go someplace not desired, and my "improper" installation will survive longer then the one that is identical other then the missing weep hole.

 

[tsamples]

Okay

Okay

I have never seen this but would allow it. The LB and PVC are simply being used as protection. I was taught early in my career as an inspector that there is the code and there is common sense, and the two are not always the same. To be honest though, why not just run the GEC through the same hole BESIDE the PVC? It runs along the PVC and is mostly hidden. There is only one hole to seal and you don't need to wonder if the install is code compliant.

 

[mopowr steve]

I have never seen this but would allow it. The LB and PVC are simply being used as protection. I was taught early in my career as an inspector that there is the code and there is common sense, and the two are not always the same. To be honest though, why not just run the GEC through the same hole BESIDE the PVC? It runs along the PVC and is mostly hidden. There is only one hole to seal and you don't need to wonder if the install is code compliant.

I tend to find the tightest fit hole saw to make the "stub in" which therefore leaves no room for GEC to pass by. I do this because the tighter fit holds the pvc more stable and less to caulk around. Again this is two fold as I am making a weep hole in the LB for drainage of the eventual water that gets in once the gasket craps out and serve as a way to pass the GEC from the panel inside home to the ground rod(s). All in trying to be as efficient as possible and create a better way even if it is thinking "outside of the box". And as you said this pvc is only used from the get-go as supplementary protection so I should get no guff.

 

[mopowr steve]

I'm confused. Where does the GEC go after it leaves the hole in the LB? Where do as it start before it gets to the LB?

Originates from service panel inside home to the ground rod(s) outside. SE Cable being used between meter and panel.

 

[ActionDave]

Originates from service panel inside home to the ground rod(s) outside. SE Cable being used between meter and panel.

So you don't have a Service Disconnect outside next to the meter I take it.

Why not run the GEC up the inside of pipe and use a smaller hole in the LB?

 

[infinity]

Are we advocating drilling holes in LB's to run conductors through the hole as code compliant? Also when using PVC LB's on a service they quite often violate the 6X rule.

 

[kwired]

Are we advocating drilling holes in LB's to run conductors through the hole as code compliant? Also when using PVC LB's on a service they quite often violate the 6X rule.

May violate 6X, but often 3R is all that is needed for the application.

 

[jim dungar]

IMO the GEC can be in the same hole through the structure as the LB but not within the LB. Are LB's permitted to be field modified to allow a conductor to enter and exit them?

Everything can be field modified. The question is: will a AHJ accept the field modification?

However, in this case the OP clearly says the PVC conduit and LB are not part of a raceway system. What NEC rules apply to 'mechanical protection'?

 

[infinity]

Everything can be field modified. The question is: will a AHJ accept the field modification?

However, in this case the OP clearly says the PVC conduit and LB are not part of a raceway system. What NEC rules apply to 'mechanical protection'?

If this is just for protection then the SE cable in an LB is a bigger problem than the hole with the GEC.

It is almost impossible to comply with 338.24 when running SE cable in an LB.

 

[mopowr steve]

If this is just for protection then the SE cable in an LB is a bigger problem than the hole with the GEC.

It is almost impossible to comply with 338.24 when running SE cable in an LB.

May be questionable as I slip the LB on over the cable as I curve it. This is how I start the whole job rather than trying a shoe horn and hammer to get it in a LB afterwards. I'll have to check the radius of my bend. Good point but I got one for you, how much less bending radius would you have using a SEU sill plate (which is listed for the use) an LB definitely offers more.

 

[stew]

I think your solution is awesome and does not violate any code I am aware of. I nearly always remember to drill a weep hole in outdoor boxes of any type. So what if the gec goes out that hole. Got a code reference that says it cant? Lets hear it! Is common sense that hard?

 

[infinity]

May be questionable as I slip the LB on over the cable as I curve it. This is how I start the whole job rather than trying a shoe horn and hammer to get it in a LB afterwards. I'll have to check the radius of my bend. Good point but I got one for you, how much less bending radius would you have using a SEU sill plate (which is listed for the use) an LB definitely offers more.

Even if you use a sill plate you would still need to somehow comply with 338.24. For me if I'm wearing an inspector's hat, SE cable in an LB would fail every time. If you want to be code compliant then you can use an elbow.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The question came up at our state meeting about drilling holes in LB's for drainage. The members felt it was okay as it helped satisfy the rule to run conduit to drain. They said the manufacturer will not pre drill it because they do not know the orientation in which it will be used.

Now running a wire thru is another story but personally I do not see that as an issue. I would check with the ahj

I must admit I am confused by this design. Why run the pvc and not connect it to the panel. Is the top open?

 

[kwired]

Whether or not there is sufficient bending space depends on the size of the conduit body itself. No different then using a conduit body with conductors that need sufficient bending space. If using say 1-1/4 inch raceway but you put a 2 inch conduit body on it - you may have a better chance of having enough bending space then if you used a 1-1/4 conduit body.

 

[mopowr steve]

The question came up at our state meeting about drilling holes in LB's for drainage. The members felt it was okay as it helped satisfy the rule to run conduit to drain. They said the manufacturer will not pre drill it because they do not know the orientation in which it will be used.

Now running a wire thru is another story but personally I do not see that as an issue. I would check with the ahj

I must admit I am confused by this design. Why run the pvc and not connect it to the panel. Is the top open?

Many times routing PVC to a panel proves to be either difficult to impossible due to placement of all equipment. By allowing it to just be the SEU cable inside allows for more flexibility. So I use it as a standard procedure the makes all jobs go with ease and efficiency. Again looking at countless existing services with complete conduit system leads to condensation dripping back into the panel esp. If not sealed with duct seal or other means. The PVC on exterior provides additional weather-protection from sunlight and moisture getting in to cable. Very sad to see plain ole SEU after as little as 6 years jacket crack from sun exposure then let rain water in and follow all the way down to panel.