Counter or Island?

[charlie b]

A peninsular countertop space according to 210.52(C)(3) attaches to a connecting edge of another counter top.

It does not say that. It says the pennisula's countertop is measured from the connecting edge, but it does not say the connecting edge of another counter top. This could just as easily mean the connecting edge that separates the peninsula from the wall to which it abuts. In which case this thing would be a peninsula, and the second receptacle (foreground of photo) would not be required. That is my viewpoint.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Needless to say that there is no definitive consensus on this issue. I think the receptacle in the fore ground a great convenience for the homeowner and not worth fighting over with the AHJ.

 

[kwired]

Needless to say that there is no definitive consensus on this issue. I think the receptacle in the fore ground a great convenience for the homeowner and not worth fighting over with the AHJ.

That is the way it usually works out in my experiences - customer would like it there whether required or not.

 

[charlie b]

Needless to say that there is no definitive consensus on this issue.

Apparently, this is true. I am amazed, as that never happen on this forum. :happyno: :lol:

I think the receptacle in the fore ground a great convenience for the homeowner and not worth fighting over with the AHJ.

Also true, especially since it is already built. :happyyes:

Now, can we deal with the problem that the ground pin is shown on the wrong side? It should be on the right, in a horizontal configuration. :lol:

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Now, can we deal with the problem that the ground pin is shown on the wrong side? It should be on the right, in a horizontal configuration. :lol:

Yeah, he tagged me on that but I negotiated that down.

 

[infinity]

Me too if you follow the requirements for peninsula or island in 210.52. An island would be freestanding and not against a wall. A peninsular countertop space according to 210.52(C)(3) attaches to a connecting edge of another counter top.

It does not say that. It says the pennisula's countertop is measured from the connecting edge, but it does not say the connecting edge of another counter top. This could just as easily mean the connecting edge that separates the peninsula from the wall to which it abuts. In which case this thing would be a peninsula, and the second receptacle (foreground of photo) would not be required. That is my viewpoint.

We can disagree. The heading of 210.52(C) is Countertops and lists five countertop spaces in (C1)-(C5). 210.52(C)(3) references the connecting edge which applies to the heading countertops not walls. My 2 cents.

I agree that this section doesn't adequately address the OP's question.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, it's a peninsula and you will never get an agreement on this install. I have a very similar arrangement at my house but there is a 24' deep pantry on the kitchen side and open on the eating side. I have one on the wall to serve the peninsula but one could say the first 2' is counter and the rest is the peninsula. In that case both receptacles would be required.

We had some long threads on this issue. My point was if that counter shown had another counter that butted into it then 2 receptacles would be required. Take the counter away and just one. It doesn't make sense.

maybe the first "minimum of 12x24" from the wall is "countertop" and the rest is "peninsula"? That leaves us needing an outlet for the countertop and an outlet for the peninsula.

I think I addressed that in one of my posts

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I love when I can get the Mods fighting..........Just kidding...........but really, this shows how interpretation plays a huge roll in our trade.

 

[PetrosA]

That is the way it usually works out in my experiences - customer would like it there whether required or not.

See, even experience differs. I'm always fighting FOR the receptacle in the island or peninsula. The customers don't want me installing them most of the time. :slaphead:

 

[kwired]

See, even experience differs. I'm always fighting FOR the receptacle in the island or peninsula. The customers don't want me installing them most of the time. :slaphead:

They never want you to cut holes in their cabinets, but they do want power available there:roll:

When it comes to kitchens a saying I have heard many times is they want to be able to just throw the cords of appliances at the wall and have them stick - and of course power the appliance. I guess there is no wall on an island or peninsula but they still want to just throw the cord and have it stick to something that will power it.

 

[charlie b]

We can disagree.

Yes, we can. :happyyes:

The heading of 210.52(C) is Countertops and lists five countertop spaces in (C1)-(C5). 210.52(C)(3) references the connecting edge which applies to the heading countertops not walls.

The peninsula itself has a countertop. That is what puts it within the scope of 210.52(C), and that is how the higher level heading of "countertops" comes into play for a peninsula. There is nothing that tells us what the connecting edge of a peninsula has to connect to.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You can argue this till the end of time and I don't think you will ever find a consensus on this. It will be an authority having jurisdiction call unless the wording is changed. The real question is whether the cmp meant that this requirement was for any peninsula or island and the receptacle would be other than the wall receptacle as in the actual Island or peninsula

 

[north star]

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A\A Fuel GTX,

What code governs this install ?........The NEC, ...the IRC, ...an
AHJ amendment, or other ?

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[A/A Fuel GTX]

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A\A Fuel GTX,

What code governs this install ?........The NEC, ...the IRC, ...an
AHJ amendment, or other ?

~ ~ : ~ ~ : ~ ~

The NEC, specifically Article 210

 

[north star]

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What is the space in which this wooden creation going to be
used for, ...Dining, ...Kitchen, ...Den, ...other [ RE: 210.52(A)(2),
`08 NEC ] ?......1st [ IMO ], ...the wooden thingy needs to
have some sort of definition assigned to it..........Once we have
some sort of definition for it; however loosely interpreted,
...then we can proceed to determine the code requirements
for the receptacles. :thumbsup:

~ ~ : ~ ~ : ~ ~

 

[dereckbc]

There's a wall behind it. Looks like a wall counter space to me.

Well it is connected to a wall on the end or side, and in a walk-way leading to stairs where the drawers and cabinet open toward the walk way to the stairs. Sounds like a Closet w Drawers in it to me.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Well it is connected to a wall on the end or side, and in a walk-way leading to stairs where the drawers and cabinet open toward the walk way to the stairs. Sounds like a Closet w Drawers in it to me.

So therefore the recessed cans above it must have an enclosed trim.........

 

[north star]

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The IRC' definition of a closet [ might ] fit this particular
application. From the `06 IRC, Ch. 2 - CLOSET: "A small
room or chamber used for storage."

When the countertop goes on, ...it might be defined as a wall
divider, or even a peninsula, but definitely not an island !

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[Dennis Alwon]

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The IRC' definition of a closet fits this particular application.
From the `06 IRC, Ch. 2 - CLOSET: "A small room or chamber
used for storage."

When the countertop goes on, ...it might be defined as a wall
divider, or even a peninsula, but definitely not an island !

= = > - < = =

A peninsula and island are pretty much the same as far as the NEC is concerned

 

[north star]

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Dang it **Dennis**, ...don't be muddying the waters so much.
We're trying to split hairs here !

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