500 ohm low-drift

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I have an AB 1400 with 0-10v analog inputs. Two of them, I can use and get 0-10v transducers easily. The second two, may require the use of a "500 Ohm low-drift precision resistor valued at 0.05% or 10 ppm" per Rockwell Support document 16415. Ebay is the only one I have found so far. Someone have a source? Our local RS did not have them.
 

mike_kilroy

Senior Member
Location
United States
I assume this is a PLC thing that you may want 4-20ma input for rather than 0-10vdc? I never saw a gidget that takes 4-20ma that did not have span and elevation or equiv adjustments; always meant for our projects we could use any ol' resistor we wanted within range - typically 400-600 ohms.

Are you putting this device in a location where temp is going to significantly change and cause you concern over ppm specs?

probably more important spec is wattage for it since v^2/r=100/500= 200mw so you should probably use a 1 watt resistor to keep temp from changing linearity between 4 & 20ma range....
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
The larger current transducers I am looking at only have a 4-20 ma output. I need the 0-10v for the standard analog input on this plc. The temperature in the control room should stay in the 65-75 degree range. I hadn't thought about using a different resistance or tolerance range but I could. I would need to see how that would affect my logic...if I can live with the results. Very possibly.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
140415-2358 EDT

Check Mouser

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/PTF65250R00AYEK/?qs=lapbQfCXP/WQLz7i/2%2biFw==

Use two 250 ohms 1/4 W resistors in series. Note: 0.05% of 500 = 0.25 ohms. You need to consider the voltage sense terminations to the resistor.

Do you really need this resistor accuracy? Can you use a calibration procedure instead?

What is the accuracy of the desired measurement?

.

My reading and study of the first hour.

No, I do not need that kind of accuracy.

My transducers are 1% at full scale which in this case is 750 amps. To me that means plus or minus 7.5 amps. Close enough for what I am doing. I want to shut things down before we go locked rotor or start burning belts and that # is well below 750. Looks like a smaller current transducer can handle the staring current and be within the range I need to monitor. Smaller means 0-10 volt and no resistor to worry about.

Thank you.
 

mike_kilroy

Senior Member
Location
United States
its a PLC, YOU have full control over adjustment of the input and its meaning. Use a 1 watt 480 ohm 10% resistor and be done with it. What does 10% or .05% MEAN? It means the value is within that range of the number written on it - it does not mean ANYTHING for changing over time or temp. Since you have FULL control over the setpoint and adjustment of the input signal, it means you should not have any need to use any precision resistor at all.

More math:

10v/500ohm=20ma
10v/480ohm=20.8ma

If your unit cannot adjust 20.8 into 20.0 there is something wrong. And YOU are going to pick a trip point so even if the hardware could not adjust for analog input (and all do) then you could just tweak your set point accordingly. FOr instance, if you want trip point 450amps, then use 450*20/20.8= 432amp instead.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
140416-0800 EDT

ptonsparky:

Since your goal is to sense an overload there are several possibilities, and you don't need any high accuracy.

Ideally you would measure power and not current. If you were not concerned with detection of phase loss on a three phase system, then a single phase sensor could be used.

If you use a current sensor (shunt, current transformer, or magnetic field sensor), then this sensor can have a full scale rating equal to something somewhat above your normal full load need so long as any overload conditions don't exceed the sensor's power dissipation capability. Suppose your normal full load was 200 A, then a 400 to 500 A transducer probably would be a good choice.

When current transformers are overloaded, then they simply start into magnetic saturation of the core and accuracy gradually decreases as saturation increases. A Hall type sensor has a much more square saturation characteristic. A simple resistor shunt is only a power dissipation problem.

There are some Hall current sensors with high accuracy that use magnetic feedback that have an inherent design defect that creates a problem when saturated, but this is not because of the basic Hall component.

Some websites:

http://www.wago.com/infomaterial/pdf/51285476.pdf very confusing.
http://fwbell.com/downloads/files/Methods_Current_Measurement.pdf I skimmed, well written.
http://fwbell.com/products/current-sensors-open-loop.aspx F.W.Bell now part of a British company. This web page is better than some of their others.

http://www.loadcontrols.com/products/products.html I have used their product many years ago and it worked very well. Still have the unit and use it once in a while. I don't like the website. It is not clear and adequately informative. I don't think that many websites are created by people that actual put themselves in the position of the user. For example I can converge on what I want with a paper copy of a Mouser catalog faster than trying to use their online web stuff.

The Load Controls device is a power monitor with output signal voltage isolated from the current and voltage inputs, and can be described as a DC voltage proportional to the input power for a steady-state input. Response time is a fractional part of a cycle on a three phase input. I used their device as a means to estimate torque on a machine that did not have a mechanical load torque transducer.

For many current sensors I could not determine whether there was a rectified output or not. Too much superficial and incomplete information on the various websites.

.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I have an AB 1400 with 0-10v analog inputs. Two of them, I can use and get 0-10v transducers easily. The second two, may require the use of a "500 Ohm low-drift precision resistor valued at 0.05% or 10 ppm" per Rockwell Support document 16415. Ebay is the only one I have found so far. Someone have a source? Our local RS did not have them.

This do?

Specifications
Diameter 6.35mm
Dimensions 6.35 Dia. x 12.7mm
Length 12.7mm
Maximum Operating Temperature +145?C
Maximum Temperature Coefficient +3ppm/?C
Minimum Operating Temperature -55?C
Minimum Temperature Coefficient -3ppm/?C
Power Rating 0.5W
Resistance 500?
Technology Wire Wound
Temperature Coefficient ?3ppm/?C
Termination Style Wire Lead
Tolerance ?0.1%
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
This do?

Specifications
Diameter 6.35mm
Dimensions 6.35 Dia. x 12.7mm
Length 12.7mm
Maximum Operating Temperature +145?C
Maximum Temperature Coefficient +3ppm/?C
Minimum Operating Temperature -55?C
Minimum Temperature Coefficient -3ppm/?C
Power Rating 0.5W
Resistance 500?
Technology Wire Wound
Temperature Coefficient ?3ppm/?C
Termination Style Wire Lead
Tolerance ?0.1%

I suppose you have that in your box of excess goodies in the storage bin. My problem would be finding it if I did have it.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I suppose you have that in your box of excess goodies in the storage bin. My problem would be finding it if I did have it.
I got it from the RS website.
Filter for:
Fixed resistor, through hole, value, temp coefficient, tolerance
And you are left with applicable results.
Part number for us is 237-3139

And that's what I gave the spec. for taken straight off their description.

Data sheet:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/106f/0900766b8106f4fd.pdf
 

mike_kilroy

Senior Member
Location
United States
Since there will not be multiple series controllers on this 4-20ma signal, then going larger resistance won't hurt you.

Since the purpose of this 4-20ma signal is a go/no-go test, there is little need for high accuracy or lineararity.

Since a 1 watt resistor will only cost another 4 cents (or 3 euro) over the cost of a 1/2 watt resistor, and assuming the additional space for its slightly larger size is not an issue, I would go 1 watt just because it can be considered a better engineered solution to keep linearity - even tho not required in this case - better due to resistance change in the resistor from heating up from the potential .25w.


https://www.box.com/shared/ur605dwq9o3pwmxgqle4
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
These guys will make anything you want.
Values.................................from 0.1 thru 10 Megohms
Tolerances...........................?0.01% (Std.) ? to ?0.005%
TCR Char............................5ppm (Std.) ? to 0?1ppm/?C
 
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