Aluminum SEC's - XHHW vs. URD

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HackElectric

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
For some reason my local supply houses don't carry aluminum THHN/THWN, they only have aluminum XHHW. The XHHW insulation is more expensive than THHN.

I've been told that in other parts of the country they commonly use 4/0-4/0-2/0 URD "Sweetbriar" cable in PVC service risers because this cable is considerably cheaper than aluminum XHHW.

So I was wondering if this was acceptable in your area and if there were any problems with the code to run URD down a PVC service riser to the meter pan and then inside to the main service panel?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
I suspect that URD does not have a sunlight resistant rating since it is an underground cable. I agree with Bob not compliant
 
M

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
HackElectric said:
For some reason my local supply houses don't carry aluminum THHN/THWN, they only have aluminum XHHW. The XHHW insulation is more expensive than THHN.

I've been told that in other parts of the country they commonly use 4/0-4/0-2/0 URD "Sweetbriar" cable in PVC service risers because this cable is considerably cheaper than aluminum XHHW.

So I was wondering if this was acceptable in your area and if there were any problems with the code to run URD down a PVC service riser to the meter pan and then inside to the main service panel?
Click to expand...

It is acceptable in my area to run it in a riser to meter. Home Depot's labeled URD is Sunlight / UV Resistant.
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Michael15956 said:
I been down this road before and not going to again. Read my post again especially this part "Home Depot's labeled URD".
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I read it and if the conductor is only labeled 'URD' it can not be used for NEC applications.

It would also have to say USE or some other NEC recognized conductor type.

From the 2011 NEC.

310.10 Uses Permitted. The conductors described in
310.104 shall be permitted for use in any of the wiring
methods covered in Chapter 3 and as specified in their
respective tables or as permitted elsewhere in this Code.
Click to expand...
 
M

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
iwire said:
I read it and if the conductor is only labeled 'URD' it can not be used for NEC applications.
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I currently don't know what insulation type their (Home Depot) "URD" is. But since it is sunlight/UV resistance our inspectors accept it. I don't run it into the building though. I don't think it is fire resistance.

BTW: Your Go Pro Video was nice to watch! Can you make one when you wire up a larger transformer? I'd watch it no matter how long.
 
augie47

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Over the years, I've seen a reel or two of URD pop up at local big box stores. I suspect from some purchasing agent who finds a less expensive cable and I imagine it gets by in some jurisdictions.
Locally, after a few customer returns due to it being a "non Code compliant cable" the reels disappear.... perhaps shipped to Michael15956's area.
 
M

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
augie47 said:
Over the years, I've seen a reel or two of URD pop up at local big box stores. I suspect from some purchasing agent who finds a less expensive cable and I imagine it gets by in some jurisdictions.
Locally, after a few customer returns due to it being a "non Code compliant cable" the reels disappear.... perhaps shipped to Michael15956's area.
Click to expand...

Interesting, what do you think makes it non-compliant on the outside of a building?
 
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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
URD is common around these parts. We have a lot of underground service and feeders on the farms. It is nothing more then three or four conductors twisted into a cable assembly with no overall outer covering. Basically a convenience for handling but they are still essentially three or four individual conductors. I haven't run into any yet but I see in trade magazines the same thing advertised all the time with THHN/THWN conductors packaged in a cable assembly with no overall outer jacket.

URD is not a recognized NEC term. The wire and cable companies do however still mark the individual conductors. If the only marking on the cable is USE, then it is USE conductor and the appropriate code applies to it's installation and use, number one problem with this particular cable is it can not enter a building.

Most URD cable we have been seeing ever since the state electrical inspectors caught on to the USE issue is cable with dual rated conductors usually USE/RHW/RHH. This can be used to enter a building.

Some of the cable that is commonly only marked USE and no other marking are the most popular sizes used for long runs to irrigation equipment. I imagine straight USE is maybe a little less cost is why, and these runs never enter a building and are often 1500 feet or even more.

The URD that POCO's stock is marked USE only on the conductors.
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Michael15956 said:
Interesting, what do you think makes it non-compliant on the outside of a building?
Click to expand...

Not found in table 310.13 / 310.102 dependent on code cycle. It may not be a listed conductor at all.

What code article covers the installation of 'URD'?

If it also has USE on it that would change things. :)
 
HackElectric

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I've never had an inspector look closely as the conductors during a service inspection, but I won't risk it. I'll just stick with XHHW. I am probably going to start ordering both 4/0 and some 2/0 for the neutral, that should help getting it thru the LB and save on money too.
 
M

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
iwire said:
Not found in table 310.13 / 310.102 dependent on code cycle. It may not be a listed conductor at all.

What code article covers the installation of 'URD'?

If it also has USE on it that would change things. :)
Click to expand...

Below is what HD stocks, and Southwire's description. I can remember if it also has USE-2 label on it. I will check later today.

Southwire's triplex 600 volt secondary UD cable meets or exceeds all applicable requirements of ICEA S-105-692 for
cross-linked polyethylene insulated conductors and UL Standard 854 for Type USE-2.


Yes, I know URD is not in the code book.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire said:
Not found in table 310.13 / 310.102 dependent on code cycle. It may not be a listed conductor at all.

What code article covers the installation of 'URD'?

If it also has USE on it that would change things. :)
Click to expand...
Like I said in the earlier post, all the "URD" I have seen has individual conductor markings. Sometimes they are just marked USE sometimes they are marked USE/RHW/RHH. I have never seen "URD" marked on the conductors themselves just on the tag on the reel. URD is nothing more then conductors, each with their own individual markings to make them stand alone code compliant conductors or some type that have been twisted into a cable assembly with no overall outer covering for ease of handling.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I bet that the home depot cable is a urd cable that is really dual rated rhh/rhw or something along those lines-- we call it trailer cable- 4plex. My guess is this is what they have http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet12

I just went to home depot site--- yikes
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwir...Cable-Black-55417301/202250411#specifications

URD that is not wet location rated and has no flame retardant. They say it is can be used for underground installation yet not wet location rated. LOL also not sunlight resistant

A search of southwire does not even come up with URD
 
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M

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
kwired said:
Like I said in the earlier post, all the "URD" I have seen has individual conductor markings. Sometimes they are just marked USE sometimes they are marked USE/RHW/RHH. I have never seen "URD" marked on the conductors themselves just on the tag on the reel. URD is nothing more then conductors, each with their own individual markings to make them stand alone code compliant conductors or some type that have been twisted into a cable assembly with no overall outer covering for ease of handling.
Click to expand...

I agree. I do know the cables at HD are marked with sunlight resistance. So, I think they are complaint on the outside of a building. And I have seen them mark on a tag, but not the cable URD.
 
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