Low Voltage Generator Wire

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Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
I'm wiring a 20KW generator and I was told that there are cable assemblies for the control wire. The run is about 80 feet. I think someone said they are called cable tray wires. Anyone have any info on the wires?
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Instead of using #14 THHN (or trying to find #18, if you can), you can use a single tray cable.

They sell a 7 conductor 18 gauge tray cable for forty something cents per foot.
 

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
Instead of using #14 THHN (or trying to find #18, if you can), you can use a single tray cable.

They sell a 7 conductor 18 gauge tray cable for forty something cents per foot.

Thanks Hack! I been using #14 and I think most times it is a waste of copper and harder to pull. Do you think #18awg will be good for 80 feet?
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
What brand? You gotta check their specs. Generac says #18 is good for many hundreds of feet (I forget exactly how many because it's more than I will ever run it).
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
A word of caution. Take a look at 336.12. For non-industrial {336,.10(7)}, use it can not be used outside of a cable tray or raceway.
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Yeah Augie, we were just talking about that recently on another forum in which I inquired about running TC thru a house next to an SER feeder cable.

For normal generator installations (I use Generac), I run it in the same raceway as the feeders so it's compliant.
 

GMc

Senior Member
Thank much guys! Yes it is a Generac. I'll see if my supply house has it.

This was pulled from a Generac Installation manual.

Max. Cable Length Recommended Wire Size
460 feet (140m) No. 18 AWG.
461 to 730 feet (223m) No. 16 AWG.
731 to 1,160 feet (354m) No. 14 AWG.
1,161 to 1850 feet (565m) No. 12 AWG.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
If you use that, it cannot be in the same raceway as power wiring, but other than that it is probably OK.
Unless the listing on the thermostat wire restricts its use to Class 2 and the General control PS is not Class 2.

Tapatalk!
 

hurk27

Senior Member
PS = Power supply which is what determines class as per 725.

Generac uses 4 or 5 control wires, two which monitor the utility lines N1 and N2 are 120 volts to ground or 240 volts between them and are protected by 5 amp fuses in the ATS, the other 3 are 23 (12 volt negative transfer signal) 194/15 (12 volt positive reference) and 0 ( 12 volt negative reference) 0 is not use anymore since they have moved the charger to the control board in the newer Nexus systems, and even many older units didn't use it unless you installed the charger in the ATS, so only three of the 5 conductors have to be kept separate from the line voltage circuits, but even Generac ran them in the same flex on the smaller combo ATS panels with circuit breakers, and their wiring diagrams stated up to 30 feet was allowed.

Even though the control wire (23) is part of the 12 vdc system it controls an ice cube relay that controls the transfer switch coils which are 120 volts each, if there were no signal on wire 23 then the transfer switch uses the 120 volts from the utility (N1) to transfer back to normal, also if there is no 120/240 output from the generator the ATS will not transfer from utility since the ATS coils use the 120 volts from the generator to transfer and a set of limit switches to turn off the 120 volts once it has transfered.

On some models there are a set of wire for manually starting the generator when a manual transfer switch is used these are 183 and 178, I have only seen them on their commercial lines of generators or one ordered with a manual TS.

In all of Generac's wiring diagrams the utility sense wires (N1 and N2) are shown run in the same conduit as the 12 volt control wiring but I have run these with the power conductors so I could just run a 3 wire cable for the others.
 
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HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
even Generac ran them in the same flex on the smaller combo ATS panels with circuit breakers, and their wiring diagrams stated up to 30 feet was allowed.
They have since changed that. There is no more limit to how far you can run the control wiring with the feeders.
 

HackElectric

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Thanks for the clarification.
So Hurk, would you use 150 volt rated 18 gauge t'stat cable in a separate raceway for the control wiring for a 20 kw Generac?
Why would you want to? Order the inexpensive tray cable and run it all (feeders and control wiring) in 1 raceway.

FWIW, I have always ran 6 control wires for the 20KW Generac. I believe it will run without the 0, but the installation manual says to connect it so I always do.
 
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