Inspection When to or not

[Fordean]

I have a Small EM call. Pole out in parking lot. Need to Trench 165 feet, Down 24 inches. To replace. I called mark out in. But not sure whether or not to pull permit on a small, Job, Need trench closed same day. Which is hard with Twsp.

Any input.

 

[kwired]

The answer to that question is entirely dependent upon the rules of the jurisdiction at the location and how willing you are to pay the consequences if you are found breaking those rules.

 

[petersonra]

I have a Small EM call. Pole out in parking lot. Need to Trench 165 feet, Down 24 inches. To replace. I called mark out in. But not sure whether or not to pull permit on a small, Job, Need trench closed same day. Which is hard with Twsp.

Any input.

I am not sure anything with a 165 foot long trench through a parking lot is going to be considered a small job.

Call the permitting authority and ask them. No one here knows.

 

[kwired]

I am not sure anything with a 165 foot long trench through a parking lot is going to be considered a small job.

Call the permitting authority and ask them. No one here knows.

Big or small, most jurisdictions likely require a permit for the described job. Choose not to get a permit, and you are subject to whatever they have set as a penalty for not getting the permit, and may be asked to expose your installation to make it available for inspection as well.

If you need to cover same day and can't get inspections in timely manner some may work with you and maybe let you cover portions of it and leave others that maybe do not necessarily need covered for later inspection. They are usually easier to work with if planning ahead then they are if not notified at all.

 

[69gp]

in MA pulling a permit is a must. As for getting an inspection there are a few things to consider and a call to the inspector could clarify things. First have you worked in the town before? does the inspector know the quality of the work? I have run across this same situation before. I was told to make sure I cover the conduit in sand lay my marker tape at the right depth and just take some photos to back the work up. Easy and done.

 

[kwired]

in MA pulling a permit is a must. As for getting an inspection there are a few things to consider and a call to the inspector could clarify things. First have you worked in the town before? does the inspector know the quality of the work? I have run across this same situation before. I was told to make sure I cover the conduit in sand lay my marker tape at the right depth and just take some photos to back the work up. Easy and done.

How many people submit "compliant photos" but not photos of the actual installation that the permit applies to?

I never liked the photo idea unless the photo maybe at least has some background included that helps prove where the photo was taken, then came photo editing that doesn't take too advanced computer skills to be able to do.

 

[iwire]

Lets not rock the photo trench inspection boat.

It has saved me time on many occasions. I take tons of pictures, they are free and the inspector can look at all or none of them as long as he (its always a he around here) signs off.

 

[kwired]

Lets not rock the photo trench inspection boat.

It has saved me time on many occasions. I take tons of pictures, they are free and the inspector can look at all or none of them as long as he (its always a he around here) signs off.

I don't doubt it has been a nice convenience for many, but as particular as some inspectors are it amazes me they would accept a photo that can easily be doctored to show him what he wants to see. How about for proving the depth of a buried item we just take a photo an insert a tape measure that is at a different scale then the rest of the photo? We can make that 16 inch deep raceway easily 36 inches deep:happyyes:

 

[iwire]

I don't doubt it has been a nice convenience for many, but as particular as some inspectors are it amazes me they would accept a photo that can easily be doctored to show him what he wants to see. How about for proving the depth of a buried item we just take a photo an insert a tape measure that is at a different scale then the rest of the photo? We can make that 16 inch deep raceway easily 36 inches deep:happyyes:

No doubt things can be faked, some people lie.

I don't lie to inspectors, I may not volunteer information to them but if they ask me a direct question they get a truthful answer.

So if they are OK with pictures I am happy to take honest pictures and let them look at all of them. Usually there is enough showing in the background that you can tell where they were taken.

As far as doctoring the photos ........ sounds a bit over the top for basic electrical work.

Typically I use the photos on small jobs, big jobs they come out and look.

 

[iceworm]

No doubt things can be faked, some people lie.

I don't lie to inspectors, I may not volunteer information to them but if they ask me a direct question they get a truthful answer.

As far as doctoring the photos ........ sounds a bit over the top for basic electrical work.

bob -
Could be the earth is getting ready for a magnetic pole swap.

I'm exactly where you are on this.

ice

 

[qcroanoke]

No doubt things can be faked, some people lie.

I don't lie to inspectors, I may not volunteer information to them but if they ask me a direct question they get a truthful answer.

A good approach.
I answer their questions truthfully.

 

[kwired]

No doubt things can be faked, some people lie.

I don't lie to inspectors, I may not volunteer information to them but if they ask me a direct question they get a truthful answer.

So if they are OK with pictures I am happy to take honest pictures and let them look at all of them. Usually there is enough showing in the background that you can tell where they were taken.

As far as doctoring the photos ........ sounds a bit over the top for basic electrical work.

Typically I use the photos on small jobs, big jobs they come out and look.

Well I imagine most would only request pictures from someone they trust as well. Some homeowner or handyman likely is getting a thorough live inspection as compared to a contractor with good records and proven performance.

 

[69gp]

How many people submit "compliant photos" but not photos of the actual installation that the permit applies to?

I never liked the photo idea unless the photo maybe at least has some background included that helps prove where the photo was taken, then came photo editing that doesn't take too advanced computer skills to be able to do.

All my photos are compliant. I can install that 165' of conduit in a matter of minutes after the trench is ready sand on the bottom lay pipe and cover. It would take me longer to photo shop my pictures than to do the actual work. That's kind of a crude way to look at others by not trusting them.

In MA an inspector must do trench inspections within 24 hrs. and rough inspections within 72 hrs. Also the inspections are required to be conducted within normal work hours. We have a lot of small towns here and most of the inspectors are not full time. They hold other jobs or have their own contracting business. I accommodate them by meeting them after normal hours or on a Saturday which i do not haft to do. If after giving written notice for a trench inspection if its not inspected within 24 hrs. i can just cover it up. So would you rather have pictures or nothing?

I don't brag but my work and the work of my men is impeccable. We don't make mistakes. We were wiring a large 18,000 square foot house along with another electrical contractor doing the HVAC control wiring and another doing the alarm system. It was a tight schedule we finished our work, I faxed in for an inspection. The inspector called and said he was not going to inspect until everyone was ready. I told him we had a deadline and I did not care about the other contractors. his reply was hes only part time and he is not going to make 3 separate trips out there. My reply back was im telling the contractor to cover the walls in 72 hrs. He then changed his mind and said he would be there in an hour. To help justify his job for being so kind to come to the site as required by law I had my men remove the staples for the top of all switch boxes so he could find something wrong with the job. the only thing he found wrong with our work was the romex not stapled on the top of the switch boxes.

The trust has to be there its a give and take situation.

 

[readydave8]

We don't make mistakes.

Never?

Me to.

 

[readydave8]

To help justify his job for being so kind to come to the site as required by law I had my men remove the staples for the top of all switch boxes so he could find something wrong with the job.

I'm curious how many man-hours it takes to remove and renail one staple at every switch box in an 18,000 square foot house.

 

[cainisunabel]

I'm curious how many man-hours it takes to remove and renail one staple at every switch box in an 18,000 square foot house.

assuming that we're talking only about boxes that will contain switches and that the massive home in question has a lighting/home automation system, not long (don't get all captain obvious on me with the switch box thing. lingo changes by region, you know). i'm finishing up a 13,000 sq. ft. home that has more switches in the attic than the rest of the house.

i'm surprised the inspector didn't go alpha male and force a re-inspection.

 

[69gp]

Never?

Me to.

never

 

[69gp]

I'm curious how many man-hours it takes to remove and renail one staple at every switch box in an 18,000 square foot house.

think it was 4 man hours few guys going around with staplers. the wire was already formed so it really was not that long.

 

[69gp]

assuming that we're talking only about boxes that will contain switches and that the massive home in question has a lighting/home automation system, not long (don't get all captain obvious on me with the switch box thing. lingo changes by region, you know). i'm finishing up a 13,000 sq. ft. home that has more switches in the attic than the rest of the house.

i'm surprised the inspector didn't go alpha male and force a re-inspection.

he pretty much let me go as he was taking it out on the guy doing the HVAC control wiring. Yes it was a lot of boxes but just felt as if I would give him something to find. Half the job was done in EMT as you know when you do a job like this the owners keep changing things around so we wanted to be able to cover everything that could come along.

 

[kwired]

All my photos are compliant. I can install that 165' of conduit in a matter of minutes after the trench is ready sand on the bottom lay pipe and cover. It would take me longer to photo shop my pictures than to do the actual work. That's kind of a crude way to look at others by not trusting them.

In MA an inspector must do trench inspections within 24 hrs. and rough inspections within 72 hrs. Also the inspections are required to be conducted within normal work hours. We have a lot of small towns here and most of the inspectors are not full time. They hold other jobs or have their own contracting business. I accommodate them by meeting them after normal hours or on a Saturday which i do not haft to do. If after giving written notice for a trench inspection if its not inspected within 24 hrs. i can just cover it up. So would you rather have pictures or nothing?

I don't brag but my work and the work of my men is impeccable. We don't make mistakes. We were wiring a large 18,000 square foot house along with another electrical contractor doing the HVAC control wiring and another doing the alarm system. It was a tight schedule we finished our work, I faxed in for an inspection. The inspector called and said he was not going to inspect until everyone was ready. I told him we had a deadline and I did not care about the other contractors. his reply was hes only part time and he is not going to make 3 separate trips out there. My reply back was im telling the contractor to cover the walls in 72 hrs. He then changed his mind and said he would be there in an hour. To help justify his job for being so kind to come to the site as required by law I had my men remove the staples for the top of all switch boxes so he could find something wrong with the job. the only thing he found wrong with our work was the romex not stapled on the top of the switch boxes.

The trust has to be there its a give and take situation.

I'm sorry I even brought the idea that some people are not honest up:roll:

As far as making sure there is something there for him to find.... what if he doesn't find it, or at least doesn't say anything about it?

Maybe get creative and let him find some nasty smelling (whatever comes to mind) to put inside some enclosure that you are certain he will open, or a nest of hornets or something - at least it will be a little entertaining:happyyes:

Trench inspections - come out here in the sandhills region and especially in high water table areas and see if you can keep a trench open for longer then a couple minutes - in some cases it is almost impossible.