277v tl&p

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mstrlucky74

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I was told you can't run 277v temp power for drills etc.

i guess the tools will burn up or won't operate correctly. True?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
That's an ole wives tale instigated by lazy journeymen.
A lot of contractors have come to realize they can gain a significant production increase by operating the 120v hand tools on 277v.
 
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augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I goes without saying that often I am amazed.....

so many lil tricks of the trade that folks are reluctant to share.....
 

mstrlucky74

Senior Member
Location
NJ
That's an ole wives tale instigated by lazy journeymen.
A lot of contractors have come to realize they can gain a significant production increase by operating the 120v hand tools on 277v.


Seriously??? Lol
im not sure if your messing with me :dunce: But I would like to have a good response for them as to why that's not true.
 
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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Hand power tools typically operate at 120 VAC, any other voltage systems usually won't work.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
They are messing with you. But the nature of the question tends to invite that behavior. You have been around here long enough for us to expect you to know what voltage ratings mean.

But to give you a direct answer, two things come into play.

First of all, the voltage rating of any electrical device is based on the ability of its insulation system to prevent current from leaking away from the internal wiring to the metal case or otherwise outside the areas where current should remain. If you operate a tool at a voltage that is higher than its rating, you run the risk of breaking down the insulation, and thereby creating a shock hazard.

Secondly, motors tend to run at a generally constant power level. That means the product of voltage and current will remain the same, and if you change one the other will change in inverse proportion. Thus, if you operate a 120 volt tool at 277 volts (an increase of a factor of 2.3), then the current drawn by the motor will be lower by that same factor of 2.3. However, the torque developed by the motor is proportional to the current. Therefore, you will get a torque value that is less than 50% of the rated torque. In other words, if the motor does not flat out electrocute you, it will probably still not be able to do the work you are trying to make it do.
 

mstrlucky74

Senior Member
Location
NJ
They are messing with you. But the nature of the question tends to invite that behavior. You have been around here long enough for us to expect you to know what voltage ratings mean.

But to give you a direct answer, two things come into play.

First of all, the voltage rating of any electrical device is based on the ability of its insulation system to prevent current from leaking away from the internal wiring to the metal case or otherwise outside the areas where current should remain. If you operate a tool at a voltage that is higher than its rating, you run the risk of breaking down the insulation, and thereby creating a shock hazard.

Secondly, motors tend to run at a generally constant power level. That means the product of voltage and current will remain the same, and if you change one the other will change in inverse proportion. Thus, if you operate a 120 volt tool at 277 volts (an increase of a factor of 2.3), then the current drawn by the motor will be lower by that same factor of 2.3. However, the torque developed by the motor is proportional to the current. Therefore, you will get a torque value that is less than 50% of the rated torque. In other words, if the motor does not flat out electrocute you, it will probably still not be able to do the work you are trying to make it do.

I know...understood. I was never an electrician but your right. Thanks
 
They are messing with you. But the nature of the question tends to invite that behavior. You have been around here long enough for us to expect you to know what voltage ratings mean.

But to give you a direct answer, two things come into play.

First of all, the voltage rating of any electrical device is based on the ability of its insulation system to prevent current from leaking away from the internal wiring to the metal case or otherwise outside the areas where current should remain. If you operate a tool at a voltage that is higher than its rating, you run the risk of breaking down the insulation, and thereby creating a shock hazard.

Secondly, motors tend to run at a generally constant power level. That means the product of voltage and current will remain the same, and if you change one the other will change in inverse proportion. Thus, if you operate a 120 volt tool at 277 volts (an increase of a factor of 2.3), then the current drawn by the motor will be lower by that same factor of 2.3. However, the torque developed by the motor is proportional to the current. Therefore, you will get a torque value that is less than 50% of the rated torque. In other words, if the motor does not flat out electrocute you, it will probably still not be able to do the work you are trying to make it do.

So what that means is run the tool at 60V and get approximately double the torque, allowing you to screw things twice as fast! :lol:
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
So what that means is run the tool at 60V and get approximately double the torque, allowing you to screw things twice as fast! :lol:

remember the formula IsquaredR? torque will square, not double.

so you'll have FOUR times as fast a screw up as you were expecting.
if you reduct the voltage to zero, you'll have an infinite screw up.

i really think questions of this nature are better resolved on ET.
you'll get a lot more feedback. why, this question would have TEN
pages or more of response... might even be squared....
 

__dan

Banned
Most corded hand power tool motors are series connected, universal AC/DC motors (they have brushes). Those will turn a lot faster at 277 as they are not speed limited by frequency but by armature current, which will be a lot higher. DC motors, universal type AC/DC motors, are used for high torque at low speed.

:slaphead:
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
...Secondly, motors tend to run at a generally constant power level. That means the product of voltage and current will remain the same, and if you change one the other will change in inverse proportion. Thus, if you operate a 120 volt tool at 277 volts (an increase of a factor of 2.3), then the current drawn by the motor will be lower by that same factor of 2.3.
Huh??:?

They are messing with you.
I hope you still are. Otherwise I'm clear screwed up - which does happen occasionally.

ice
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If 277 is what is available - it probably be a good idea to provide a transformer to derive 120 volts so people can use their 120 volt tools:happyyes:
 
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