finzi
New User
- Location
- Bucks County, PA
A month or so ago, all the exterior lights and outlets on this run went out. The GFCIs on individual receptacles went out. Then the inside breaker wouldn't turn on.
This past weekend I set out to hunt down the problem. Here's the run: Outlet #1 (containing the feed coming from the panel) feeding Outlet #2, which continues on to feed Junction box #3 which has two feed... one to a separate lamppost... the other to the small shed and then onto a couple more receptacles and the final roadside lamppost.
Here's what I found. When I disconnected the feed coming FROM Outlet #1 to the rest of the circuit, I can get the breaker (and the GFCI in this box) to turn on. Next, I connected Outlet #2 again, leaving off the feed to the rest of the run. Ok... so #1 and 2 work fine.
Now, when I add the feed back to Outlet #2, the GFCI in Outlet #1 pops.
So, I disconnected (inside Junction box #3) all the leads. There are three pairs going into this junction box: One is the feed from Outlet #2, one pair goes to the 1st lamppost, and the other cable goes toward the rest of the run (shed, outlets, 2nd lamppost). I then turned the circuit back on to make certain which pair was the feed from Outlet #2. I found the hot lead using a no-contact tester and marked it. I then used a 2-wire probe voltage tester to find the neutral from this feed cable (it's impossible to tell inside the box which is which). To my surprise and confusion, no matter which neutral OR black wire I touched (of the remaining 5) they all lit up the tester as 110 volts... completing the circuit! Mind you, one pair goes to the disconnected lampost and the other paid goes to the rest of the run... disconnected. Shouldn't only a single wire complete the circuit as neutral??
Huh? This really got me. What do I have going on here? The cables are in an underground trench (about shovel depth), some of which shares the trench with my black plastic pipe feeding my garden spigots. They are in sand at the bottom of the trench (I did all this myself between 8-15 years ago... the 8 being that 1st lamppost run). Am I right in thinking that all the cables seem to be compromised somewhere? Why would all the 5 remaining cables in the junction box function as the returning neutral in the main feed?
If I have to dig the cables to this part of the run it would be about 70 feet worth. I've already changed out the GFCIs in the run. Cleaned out any ant's living in a couple of the boxes. A couple of outlets showed rust so I cleaned and replaced the outlets. Nothing has helped and I'm left with this strange 5-wire bunch of neutrals in that junction box.
Is this a short? Is this a ground fault underground?
My next test will be bypassing the longest feed run from Outlet #2 to Junction #3 above ground with new temporary cable... just to see if the GFCI and breaker will stay on. I figure if this works, the it would definitely be something wrong with that single paid feed. But the multi-neutral thing really throws me. Am I dealing with all the cables crossing somewhere? (Tight, rusty staple or something else?)
I'd really appreciate your expert advice on this. I've been doing my own electric work for over 40 years but this kind of troubleshooting is new to me.
Jerry
