AFCI Receptacle installation with no equipment ground?

[mhanson]

Good Evening All,

Curious if an AFCI receptacle can be installed where no equipment ground exists, such as in an older Knob and Tube home.
It appears as though some manufactures claim the AFCI receptacle will function without an equipment ground.
However 2011 NEC, where replacing a "Non-Grounding-Type Receptacle" 406.4(D)(2)(b) allows for the installation of a GFCI receptacle, and the receptacle shall be marked "No equipment Ground".
This allowance is not given for an AFCI receptacle.!!

So can I take from this, that even though the manufacturer states the receptacle will function without an equipment ground, the NEC does not allow for an AFCI receptacle to be installed without an equipment ground.?

Appreciate you comments
Thank You,
Michael H.
Journeyman Electrician
California

 

[GoldDigger]

On the other hand, I do not see a prohibition against putting in an AFCI breaker on a circuit and leaving for existing two wire receptacles in place.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The AFCI receptacle does not provide GFCI protection so it could not be used as a replacement receptacle at a location that does not have an EGC. You can install a GFCI receptacle at that location, but not an AFCI one, unless you also provide GFCI protection.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

There are some companies that have GFCI/ Afci breakers. I know Sq. D has then but they are pricey.... Then again you probably put a gfci in the panel and then use the afci breaker

 

[mhanson]

The AFCI receptacle does not provide GFCI protection so it could not be used as a replacement receptacle at a location that does not have an EGC. You can install a GFCI receptacle at that location, but not an AFCI one, unless you also provide GFCI protection.

Thank You Don,
I think you're right on the money, and this is my understanding of the NEC wording.

 

[Little Bill]

There are some companies that have GFCI/ Afci breakers. I know Sq. D has then but they are pricey.... Then again you probably put a gfci in the panel and then use the afci breaker

:?
Did you mean GFCI breaker then an AFCI receptacle? Or AFCI breaker and a GFCI receptacle?
What you said would be one breaker of each.

Wait....maybe you mean AFCI breaker and GFCI receptacle or dead front AT the panel.

 

[mhanson]

Dennis Alwon


There are some companies that have GFCI/ Afci breakers. I know Sq. D has then but they are pricey.... Then again you probably put a gfci in the panel and then use the afci breaker

Do you think if a GFCI breaker or combination AFCI/ GFCI breaker were installed, it would be allowed for me to install Three prong receptacles with "No Equipment Ground" label installed at each receptacle.?

Thank You
M. Hanson

 

[Little Bill]

Do you think if a GFCI breaker or combination AFCI/ GFCI breaker were installed, it would be allowed for me to install Three prong receptacles with "No Equipment Ground" label installed at each receptacle.?

Thank You
M. Hanson

Yes, as long as there is GFCI protection you can use the 3-prong receptacle along with the requirements of 406.3(D).