Always Check Things Out for Yourself

[cowboyjwc]

Or the other when they don't give you all the information. Long story short. 2 hours trying to figure out why there is no power to the garage receptacles. Just giving up and the wife asks "did you ask him about the powder room too?" Powder room? "Oh yeah, that receptacle doesn't work either." Push the button and now all the receptacles work. Grrrrrrrr.

 

[ActionDave]

I remember a trouble call I went on years ago. The HO never fessed up that he had done quite a bit of handy man work on the place, but it became apparent when every time I hit a dead end and told him I would need to tear open some walls he would drop another tid-bit of information.

I swore that if I ever had to go back I was going to strap him down to an interrogation chair.

 

[kwired]

Or the other when they don't give you all the information. Long story short. 2 hours trying to figure out why there is no power to the garage receptacles. Just giving up and the wife asks "did you ask him about the powder room too?" Powder room? "Oh yeah, that receptacle doesn't work either." Push the button and now all the receptacles work. Grrrrrrrr.

Unless you don't do much troubleshooting, it only takes one job of endless tracing to finally find that remote located GFCI to learn that if you don't have continuity between the neutral and a known good ground, there is a good chance of a tripped GFCI somewhere and to kind of assume there is one tripped somewhere before doing all that needless searching.

Not saying you wouldn't ever find something else, but when the receptacle is in a location that is to be GFCI protected, you seem to have lost both the ungrounded and grounded conductor and the fact that a GFCI opens both circuit conductors when it trips.....you kind of have to play the odds that there is a GFCI tripped somewhere. About the only time I did have those symptoms and it wasn't a tripped GFCI - there is usually some other obvious sign - like they were doing some remodeling or other invasive project that may damage cables in a wall and the item in question stopped working about that time.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Unless you don't do much troubleshooting, it only takes one job of endless tracing to finally find that remote located GFCI to learn that if you don't have continuity between the neutral and a known good ground, there is a good chance of a tripped GFCI somewhere and to kind of assume there is one tripped somewhere before doing all that needless searching.

Not saying you wouldn't ever find something else, but when the receptacle is in a location that is to be GFCI protected, you seem to have lost both the ungrounded and grounded conductor and the fact that a GFCI opens both circuit conductors when it trips.....you kind of have to play the odds that there is a GFCI tripped somewhere. About the only time I did have those symptoms and it wasn't a tripped GFCI - there is usually some other obvious sign - like they were doing some remodeling or other invasive project that may damage cables in a wall and the item in question stopped working about that time.

House was built long before GFI's were required and no grounds. They were having all kinds of work done, like molding and doors moved, etc. They actually had power to the garage because all of the lights worked so that's why I couldn't figure out why the receptacles weren't working.

 

[kwired]

House was built long before GFI's were required and no grounds. They were having all kinds of work done, like molding and doors moved, etc. They actually had power to the garage because all of the lights worked so that's why I couldn't figure out why the receptacles weren't working.

Apparently had some work done since it was built

 

[cowboyjwc]

Apparently had some work done since it was built

Yes it had, like a GFCI put in the powder room.:happyyes:

 

[FionaZuppa]

hah, stories run crazy. my bro-inlaw asked me to swap out his dining light switch with a dimmer, so he sent me a pic of his existing switch (for color purposes and to see what style so we didnt need to swap face plates, etc). i pick it up on my way over and when i get there i start to swap it out, and while doing that he says "so how will this work with the switch on the other wall?"...... other switch ???? it was a 3-way........ pita, back to the store.

 

[FREEBALL]

hahahahahaha just curious when he sent you the pic couldn't you see it didn't have on/off on it

 

[K8MHZ]

hahahahahaha just curious when he sent you the pic couldn't you see it didn't have on/off on it

It at least should have been visible at the beginning of the swap out.

But I have not noticed stuff like that, myself.

 

[John120/240]

hahahahahaha just curious when he sent you the pic couldn't you see it didn't have on/off on it

It at least should have been visible at the beginning of the swap out.

But I have not noticed stuff like that, myself.

What I have done is just get a 3 way dimmer & be done with it. For single pole you must make "UP" on & "DOWN" off.

 

[kwired]

What I have done is just get a 3 way dimmer & be done with it. For single pole you must make "UP" on & "DOWN" off.

You might find some dimmer switch series that are only available in 3 way but I have seen many ceiling fan controls that are only available in 3 way - you just cap one lead to use as a single pole.

 

[FionaZuppa]

hahahahahaha just curious when he sent you the pic couldn't you see it didn't have on/off on it

std 3-way up/down flick switch. thats the pic i got, looks like a normal switch. i was adding a up/down flick dimmer switch.

 

[jmellc]

Unless you don't do much troubleshooting, it only takes one job of endless tracing to finally find that remote located GFCI to learn that if you don't have continuity between the neutral and a known good ground, there is a good chance of a tripped GFCI somewhere and to kind of assume there is one tripped somewhere before doing all that needless searching.

Not saying you wouldn't ever find something else, but when the receptacle is in a location that is to be GFCI protected, you seem to have lost both the ungrounded and grounded conductor and the fact that a GFCI opens both circuit conductors when it trips.....you kind of have to play the odds that there is a GFCI tripped somewhere. About the only time I did have those symptoms and it wasn't a tripped GFCI - there is usually some other obvious sign - like they were doing some remodeling or other invasive project that may damage cables in a wall and the item in question stopped working about that time.

I wised up a bit on these cases. Good example; I had a call recently with none of the outdoor or garage recps working. All others OK, breaker on. I checked kitchen & bath receps, looked for any in utility rooms and briefly checked crawlspace (yes, I've seen a few home run GFCI's there!). Found nothing. Asked homeowner if I'd missed any bathrooms. Checked around again & 1 bathroom had a GFCI recep covered by a hanging towel. It was the culprit. I was out in less than 30 minutes.

Also, when I ask about recent work, I also ask specifically about any drilling or cutting anywhere. Some customers don't think to include their own doings with work they hired someone to do.

 

[GoldDigger]

One example of wiring by accretion:
Dining room light/fan stopped working, with all other outlets in the house working normally. No voltage at wall switch (switch leg only).
Was ready to open fan box to trouble shoot when I noticed a weather covered receptacle on the porch outside. Surface mounted with EMT.
Inside was a GFCI receptacle whose feed through powered the interior lighting outlet.

No idea what tripped it, since the outside receptacle was not in use.

 

[K8MHZ]

One example of wiring by accretion:
Dining room light/fan stopped working, with all other outlets in the house working normally. No voltage at wall switch (switch leg only).
Was ready to open fan box to trouble shoot when I noticed a weather covered receptacle on the porch outside. Surface mounted with EMT.
Inside was a GFCI receptacle whose feed through powered the interior lighting outlet.

No idea what tripped it, since the outside receptacle was not in use.

Condensation causing leakage current will cause them to trip, in use or not. I have seen it happen after bad rain storms.

 

[GoldDigger]

Condensation causing leakage current will cause them to trip, in use or not. I have seen it happen after bad rain storms.

Thanks, could well be. There may have been other motion activated outdoor lights on the circuit. I did not investigate in depth, and there has not been a recurrence in two years (that got to my attention anyway.)

 

[kwired]

Condensation causing leakage current will cause them to trip, in use or not. I have seen it happen after bad rain storms.

Sometimes they are not even outdoors in the rain and lightning surge may trip them.

 

[GrayHair]

They should have checked!

They should have checked!

"Your alarm system is causing the phone line problem" was the phone company litany. Sometimes it was the alarm, but I've been on calls where the alarm was either local (not monitored) or monitored by radio; neither type used phone lines. Once I was sure it wasn't the alarm, I was polite yet firm and would offer to help the telco tech identify the problem (they didn't like that). I did point them to one problem; a pedestal on the right-of-way about a mile toward town at a 45 degree angle (I suspect a mower hit it).

My point: They didn't check!

I learned a lot more about telephony than I really cared to.

Regards!

 

[rt66electric]

go check to outside Gfi

go check to outside Gfi

One example of wiring by accretion:
Dining room light/fan stopped working, with all other outlets in the house working normally. No voltage at wall switch (switch leg only).
Was ready to open fan box to trouble shoot when I noticed a weather covered receptacle on the porch outside. Surface mounted with EMT.
Inside was a GFCI receptacle whose feed through powered the interior lighting outlet.

No idea what tripped it, since the outside receptacle was not in use.

If the bathroom recept does not work ,,, then,,, go check the gfi on the front porch.
The whole subdivision is wired that way..

 

[K8MHZ]

If the bathroom recept does not work ,,, then,,, go check the gfi on the front porch.
The whole subdivision is wired that way..

Years ago before I was an electrician I moved into my girlfriend's house. There was no power to the bathroom receptacles. There were three bathrooms. I checked the breaker, it was OK. She said there had been no power at the receptacle for a couple years and she was used to it. She just used the receptacles in the bedrooms with ext. cords.

I had been there about two years and one day I was cleaning the garage out and decided to move a large shelf full of stuff and clean behind it.

Guess what I found when I moved the shelf? Yep, a GFCI receptacle. I pushed the reset button and all the bathrooms magically had power.

:rant: