self service fountain soda
- Thread starter domnic
- Start date
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jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
While I would say it could be a good idea, I cannot find anywhere in the code stating GFCI is required here given that info.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Hmmm... dispenses soda, usually ice along with the soda... wet environment... Sounds like a vending machine, just without the coin box.
422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines.
Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured
or remanufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include
a ground-fault circuit interrupter as an integral part of the
attachment plug or be located within 300 mm (12 in.) of the
attachment plug. Older vending machines manufactured or
remanufactured prior to January 1, 2005, shall be connected
to a GFCI-protected outlet.
422.51 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Vending Machines.
Cord-and-plug-connected vending machines manufactured
or remanufactured on or after January 1, 2005, shall include
a ground-fault circuit interrupter as an integral part of the
attachment plug or be located within 300 mm (12 in.) of the
attachment plug. Older vending machines manufactured or
remanufactured prior to January 1, 2005, shall be connected
to a GFCI-protected outlet.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I would say that particular machine has more characteristics in common with a sink than with a vending machine, and that would be a stronger argument for the GFCI. :angel:
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Yeah, I agree with the others. We get a lot of calls from hotels, etc... hiring us to install gfci protection. At first I thought it was an insurance thing. But in reality the whole NEC is an insurance thing.
But, then when it trips you get another service charge to reset the button on the gfci. Of course when they call we always ask if they did that. We try to help people save money. They either say yes they already tried that or they want us to do it.
Then we always describe how the gfci is doing what it is suppose to do. Then we have to go through the whole testing questions. We tell them to test it you push that button, if it trips it's working.
They say maybe its a bad gfci. It's almost always bad equipment.
Usually if a gfci is bad it won't trip.
Has any body else noticed stray cats at rest areas?
I use vending machines for coffee in the winter time when I'm going between NC and IN. It seems people abandon cats at these rest stops.
They stay behind the drink vending machines. The compressor likely puts out warm air.
But, then when it trips you get another service charge to reset the button on the gfci. Of course when they call we always ask if they did that. We try to help people save money. They either say yes they already tried that or they want us to do it.
Then we always describe how the gfci is doing what it is suppose to do. Then we have to go through the whole testing questions. We tell them to test it you push that button, if it trips it's working.
They say maybe its a bad gfci. It's almost always bad equipment.
Usually if a gfci is bad it won't trip.
Has any body else noticed stray cats at rest areas?
I use vending machines for coffee in the winter time when I'm going between NC and IN. It seems people abandon cats at these rest stops.
They stay behind the drink vending machines. The compressor likely puts out warm air.
- Location
- Massachusetts
What does the UL listing on the unit call it?
My bet is that it is not listed as a vending machine.
My bet is that it is not listed as a vending machine.
- Location
- Massachusetts
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
As Bob said, it is not a vending machine by NEC definition, and I doubt it is listed (UL) as such (watch me be wrong on this
).
I am still saying GFCI not required with the info given.
).I am still saying GFCI not required with the info given.
Ragin Cajun
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate S.C.
The CYA in me says put in a GFCI and sleep well.
RC
RC
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Some got there before I did on the definition of a vending machine.
But that just means the soda fountain itself doesn't require GFCI protection. Many are installed in proximity to a sink and that may still require GFCI protection for the receptacle.
Would also need GFCI protection (for the receptacle not the machine) if installed in a bathroom, kitchen, rooftop, outdoors, at indoor wet locations, locker rooms with showering facilities, or a garage/service bay or similar. Bathroom maybe not so likely to see such a machine, but some of the other locations though may seem strange to some, really wouldn't be too surprising to see such a machine these days.
But that just means the soda fountain itself doesn't require GFCI protection. Many are installed in proximity to a sink and that may still require GFCI protection for the receptacle.
Would also need GFCI protection (for the receptacle not the machine) if installed in a bathroom, kitchen, rooftop, outdoors, at indoor wet locations, locker rooms with showering facilities, or a garage/service bay or similar. Bathroom maybe not so likely to see such a machine, but some of the other locations though may seem strange to some, really wouldn't be too surprising to see such a machine these days.
MasterTheNEC
CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
- Location
- McKinney, Texas
- Occupation
- CEO
And my bid beat your bid by roughly $6.00 bucks...:angel:The CYA in me says put in a GFCI and sleep well.
RC
And I agree it is not a vending machine at this stage of the game. I have ironically seen a new machine that you have to use a bar code on your receipt at the machine in order to get it to distribute anything...now we are pushing the boundaries based the last part of the definition " or receipt of payment by other means"....but based on the OP this is not one of those RARE machines (I have only seen one) so it is not vending machine.
FYI- The owner (or manager) told me it was because people were coming in filling up drinks without buying anything and the owner could not keep up with who purchased something so they had it designed. It scans a barcode on the receipt before it dishes out the goods...kinda neat but tight wad"ish"..:slaphead:
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
The CYA in me says put in a GFCI and sleep well.
RC
I would also.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I did an office remodel and there were 6 employee break areas, each equipped with a unit like this.
It was used to give free drinks, soda, juice, bottled waters etc. to employees of this software company.
The inspector busted me on, told me its a vending machine and requires a GFCI. :huh:
I said it is just a refrigerator with a glass door. I pulled out the NEC and showed him the definition of vending machine. He said he would consult his boss and get back to me.
Next time he was out he explained to me that he and his boss had determined the NEC definition was a mistake and that this vending machine needed a GFCI.
OK then .... :slaphead: I installed the six GFCIs as a T&M extra and moved on.
(BTW, this was on the opposite side of the room from the counter / sink / microwave / refrigerator / food prep area that we did have GFCIs installed in.)
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I did an office remodel and there were 6 employee break areas, each equipped with a unit like this.
Next time he was out he explained to me that he and his boss had determined the NEC definition was a mistake and that this vending machine needed a GFCI.
You should have used that ball peen hammer you mentioned before.
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
I did an office remodel and there were 6 employee break areas, each equipped with a unit like this.
It was used to give free drinks, soda, juice, bottled waters etc. to employees of this software company.
The inspector busted me on, told me its a vending machine and requires a GFCI. :huh:
I said it is just a refrigerator with a glass door. I pulled out the NEC and showed him the definition of vending machine. He said he would consult his boss and get back to me.
Next time he was out he explained to me that he and his boss had determined the NEC definition was a mistake and that this vending machine needed a GFCI.
OK then .... :slaphead: I installed the six GFCIs as a T&M extra and moved on.
(BTW, this was on the opposite side of the room from the counter / sink / microwave / refrigerator / food prep area that we did have GFCIs installed in.)
Ball Peen Hammer, I remember talk of a eight pound sledge also. Clearly a case of the inspector and his supervisor of using Shirt Pocket Rules. It is situations like this that generate disdain for certain inspectors.
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