Running 120 line voltage from 208 parking lot pole

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ronball

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Champaign Il.
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Electric Contractor
What would be the easiest way to get 120 v power from a 208 parking lot base.

They want a couple of spot lites installed to shine on a sign. The parking lot lites are 208
with a groung and no neutral of course. The ground is insulated but we still have no neutral.

Open for easiest and cost saving method.
thx Ron
 
Perhaps a small transformer 208V PRI - 120V SEC or 120V x 120V SEC (not a 120/240V SEC with mid-winding tap). You'll need to provide a minimum grounding electrode system (2 rods, perhaps), and comply with OCP requirements.

Hard to determine if pulling a grounded conductor would cost less, without pertinent information.
 
What part of the NEC would it violate to put two fixtures in series?

EDIT: even if it is not a violation it might not be bright enough.
 
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ActionDave said:
A transformer will work, but were talking about two little ol' light fixtures right?

Pull a neutral or get the right fixtures is my vote.
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Or use the grounding conductor as a grounded conductor to get your 120 volts, I've seen this done once or twice............before someone blasts me.....I'm just joking. Don't do that, its illegal and dangerous.
 
dfmischler said:
What part of the NEC would it violate to put two fixtures in series?

EDIT: even if it is not a violation it might not be bright enough.
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You may realize this but it wasn't stated - to put them in series when the supply is 208 volts means each of them only has 104 volts applied instead of 120 volts - assuming they are identical loads. Also when one burns out they both stop working.

I'm in the group that suggests you find fixtures that are designed to work on 208 volts.
 
kwired said:
You may realize this but it wasn't stated - to put them in series when the supply is 208 volts means each of them only has 104 volts applied instead of 120 volts - assuming they are identical loads. Also when one burns out they both stop working.
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Yeah, that's what I meant by the EDIT comment that they may not be bright enough. And I follow the issue that if they are in series and one goes out then they both go out. But I was sincerely asking if there was a code reference that prohibits putting two identical fixtures in series (my reasoning method started with the idea that if there was a neutral, and two identical fixtures each went from one leg to the neutral then no current should be carried on the neutral unless one lamp burned out).

I'm in the group that suggests you find fixtures that are designed to work on 208 volts.
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I think this would probably be best (and raise the eyebrows of the inspector the least), too. But I'm still curious if an inspector would/could pass the series wired fixtures.
 
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dfmischler said:
if eah, that's what I meant by the EDIT comment that they may not be bright enough. And I follow the issue that if they are in series and one goes out then they both go out. But I was sincerely asking if there was a code reference that prohibits putting two identical fixtures in series (my reasoning method started with the idea that if there was a neutral, and two identical fixtures each went from one leg to the neutral then no current should be carried on the neutral unless one lamp burned out).

I think this would probably be best (and raise the eyebrows of the inspector the least), too. But I'm still curious if an inspector would/could pass the series wired fixtures.
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I do not think they would. Not knowingly.
 
dfmischler said:
What part of the NEC would it violate to put two fixtures in series?

EDIT: even if it is not a violation it might not be bright enough.
Click to expand...
110.4 Voltages
Throughout this Code, the voltage considered shall be that at
which the circuit operates. The voltage rating of electrical
equipment shall not be less than the nominal voltage of a
circuit to which it is connected.
 
dfmischler said:
Yeah, that's what I meant by the EDIT comment that they may not be bright enough. And I follow the issue that if they are in series and one goes out then they both go out. But I was sincerely asking if there was a code reference that prohibits putting two identical fixtures in series (my reasoning method started with the idea that if there was a neutral, and two identical fixtures each went from one leg to the neutral then no current should be carried on the neutral unless one lamp burned out).

I think this would probably be best (and raise the eyebrows of the inspector the least), too. But I'm still curious if an inspector would/could pass the series wired fixtures.
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They will work - but as said only at 104 volts across each in your case. As far as code violations - maybe 110.3(B) would have to be cited but really depends on instructions, can't really think of anything else that is in violation otherwise.
 
ronball said:
What would be the easiest way to get 120 v power from a 208 parking lot base.

They want a couple of spot lites installed to shine on a sign. The parking lot lites are 208
with a groung and no neutral of course. The ground is insulated but we still have no neutral.

Open for easiest and cost saving method.
thx Ron
Click to expand...

You could probably use some :lol: LED outdoor fixtures to do this as there are many properly rated for 120 to 277v use. It's gonna have to be a discharge lamp of some sort or LED since 208v incandescent lamps are hard to come by.
 
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