Doing another job for multiple items. Several 60 amp single phase 220V branches,Couple 70 amp same, and a 50 amp same. No special request for copper or alum and i'm in a competitive bid situation as always. Mostly machinery, motors, etc...and setting up 50-70 amp outlets. I default on planning Aluminum for these items unless copper is requested. Is everyone else in agreement on this thought process ? Any diehard "copper only" people still out there?
Al or Cu Branch Cir.
- Thread starter Cletis
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
I don't personally care all that much but I run into a fair number of "no aluminum wire" provisions in specs.
I prefer to see copper used, at least at field devices, because the conduits are smaller and take up less room. But for feeders, AL is fine with me, and I just don't care enough to spec it one way or the other if it is my choice. Most times the EC does as he pleases anyway, regardless of what is in the spec I write so I try to make it generic enough that as long as it meets code, it will meet my spec. Don't do much installation specs anymore anyway.
I used to put wire sizes on drawings for field wiring of motors and such. Now, I leave it off and only put sizing information for stuff our shop is doing. We pretty much have to use copper as UL508a does not allow AL wiring.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
What is the wiring method? I am a big fan of SER over NM for the #8 and larger sizes. NM is so damn expensive, especially considering you can only use the 60 degree column for ampacity (depending on code cycle and installation specifics, you may get shafted with the SER too
) Sounds like this may not be an NM sER job anyway........I dont recall ever using 4 or 6 AL in pipe though.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
...hard to get #6 Al in colors which you will likely need.
- Location
- Massachusetts
FWIW, we have some engineers associated with the auto industry here that state they have studied the cost vs benefits of Cu and their "standard" is anything larger than #2 can be AL but must terminate in hi-press manner.
I have no idea how valid their study or opinion is.
I have no idea how valid their study or opinion is.
But tape is not permitted for grounding/grounded conductors smaller then 4 AWG, but then again, I do not care for 6 AWG and smaller AL conductors...
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
....not saying I have never ever cheated that rule though
What is the wiring method? I am a big fan of SER over NM for the #8 and larger sizes. NM is so damn expensive, especially considering you can only use the 60 degree column for ampacity (depending on code cycle and installation specifics, you may get shafted with the SER too
This job will all be in MC. I had to be extremely competitive on this one particular but still must do to code, safe, and practical. I"m hemming and hollering right now on either just buying my single strands of #4THHN AL and pulling through flex and making all our branches up individually or just getting a 4 wire (all I can find locally) and capping off the 4th. These are all 208V single phase with ground for the most part. I'm gonna need a couple thousand ft of conductors to do all this. If I wrap the #6 AL or smaller the inspector here really won't care about that rule or enforce. But, a few other inspectors I have will enforce that one. Seems like around #10 or smaller is where they all enforce that one for the egc
- Location
- Massachusetts
Ahh, but in reality it is allowed.
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