Walkie-Talkies Tripping GFCI Breakers

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goldstar

goldstar

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New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
I'm on a hi-rise condo project where multiple (30 mil trip) GFCI breakers are tripping simultaneously. I remembered reading and seeing a U-Tube video on AFCI's tripping in the same manner in this thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=163177&highlight=radio+tripping+afci's

So, I decided to try this at this location. I reset all the breakers inside this one particular electric room and keyed the walkie-talkie radio and sure enough all 8 breakers tripped. Anyone else run into this ?
 
mnbiker

mnbiker

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st.paul mn
I have noticed that if i use my radio while i am taking some current readings with an amp clamp, the display will go wacky. the radio waves must effect the current transformer.
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

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goldstar said:
I'm on a hi-rise condo project where multiple (30 mil trip) GFCI breakers are tripping simultaneously. I remembered reading and seeing a U-Tube video on AFCI's tripping in the same manner in this thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=163177&highlight=radio+tripping+afci's

So, I decided to try this at this location. I reset all the breakers inside this one particular electric room and keyed the walkie-talkie radio and sure enough all 8 breakers tripped. Anyone else run into this ?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a 30 mil trip be a GFI?

What brand breakers are tripping?
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

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Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
mnbiker said:
I have noticed that if i use my radio while i am taking some current readings with an amp clamp, the display will go wacky. the radio waves must effect the current transformer.
Click to expand...

You are talking about the CT in your meter, not the CT in the breaker, correct?

More likely it's the display that is being erratic. I'm guessing you have a digital display. I'll bet the same thing doesn't happen on the older style analog meters.
 
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macmikeman

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Planet macmikeman
At Honolulu International Airport we used to have to be careful using the walkie talkie's in or around electrical rooms and vaults because they would set off the smoke alarms.
 
mnbiker

mnbiker

Senior Member
Location
st.paul mn
You are talking about the CT in your meter, not the CT in the breaker, correct?

yes, the display on the meter, i have not experienced a GFCI trip from the radio.
 
goldstar

goldstar

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Location
New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
K8MHZ said:
Wouldn't a 30 mil trip be a GFI?

What brand breakers are tripping?
Click to expand...
30 mil GFCI, I did say that in the OP. They are Siemens breakers. I did reference another thread where it was happening with Eaton (Bryant I believe) AFCI's. I forgot to mention that the GFCI breakers are being used for heat trace cables.
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
goldstar said:
30 mil GFCI, I did say that in the OP. They are Siemens breakers. I did reference another thread where it was happening with Eaton (Bryant I believe) AFCI's. I forgot to mention that the GFCI breakers are being used for heat trace cables.
Click to expand...

First, it's my understanding that fixed de-icing equipment does not require ground fault protection.

Second, if the breaker is a 30mA, it's a GFI, not a GFCI. Like this:

http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdist...eakers/equipment-gfi/pages/equipment-gfi.aspx

If the above is what you are using, note the mention of RF shielding. A call to Siemens may be in order.

Siemens GFCI breakers are 6mA.
 
goldstar

goldstar

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New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
sparkyrick

sparkyrick

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Appleton, Wi
GoldDigger said:
All they say is that it resists RF. Sometimes resistance is futile.
Click to expand...

Awesome!
rock.gif
 
J

JoeyD74

Senior Member
Location
Boston MA
Occupation
Electrical contractor
goldstar said:
I'm on a hi-rise condo project where multiple (30 mil trip) GFCI breakers are tripping simultaneously. I remembered reading and seeing a U-Tube video on AFCI's tripping in the same manner in this thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=163177&highlight=radio+tripping+afci's

So, I decided to try this at this location. I reset all the breakers inside this one particular electric room and keyed the walkie-talkie radio and sure enough all 8 breakers tripped. Anyone else run into this ?
Click to expand...

I did a hotel remodel years ago and remember the Nextel two way use to trip the GFI's in the bathrooms as you walked by them if you were sending a call.
 
B

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Definitely possible that RF is tripping them. Seen it happen to GFCIs, and know from unfortunate experience that walkie-talkies will severely interfere with PLC I/O cards which are upwards of 20mA.

Where is the heat-trace run? I'm having a vision of a bunch of unshielded wiring in big loops on a roof near a cell transmitter or something and it doesn't seem unreasonable that you would be getting >30mA differential induced in such a circuit.
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
K8MHZ said:
That may be good for you.

This is from their page on the breakers.



Since the RF interference is not being prevented as they say, I would get in touch with them for a resolution.
Click to expand...
We will be looking into that. These breakers were installed by the original contractor on the project. They are long gone but I would bet that the use of these breakers was specified by an engineering firm. Electricians here are not permitted to size or design commercial electrical systems.

Also, if you look at the technical sheet for those breakers it states this :
Technical Data

The Siemens 1-pole GFI circuit breaker is to be installed only on a single phase 120/240V AC system.

The Siemens 2-pole GFI circuit breaker can be installed on a 120/240V AC single phase, 3 wire system, the 120/240V AC portion of a 240/120 volt, 3 phase, 4 wire system, or on a 208Y/120 volt, 3 phase, 4 wire system. When installed on these systems, protection is provided for 2 wire, 240V AC or 208V AC circuits; 3 wire, 120/240V AC circuits.
Click to expand...
These are 1P breakers installed in a 3 phase 120/208 panel. I want to make sure all our ducks are in a row before calling in a Siemens rep. I just as soon remove them if they're not required and solve a problem rather than file a complaint with Siemens. I also want to make sure everything is done above board and with approvals by some authority in writing. At this point we bear no liability or responsibility for this malfunction. But, as you all know, once you touch it - you own it.
 
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