Wiring Method For "Wet" Location?

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ritelec

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Hello.

Pardon my confusion.

Residentially speaking.

I'm in Jersey and have never had an issue wiring exterior receptacles with nm (either the box cut into the sheathing or wired into the back of an fs box).
Or wiring enclosed porch ceilings (with roof) with nm.

Per nec.. should those locations actually be wired in uf? If so, doesn't make much sense to be able to terminate it into a regular "non" weather proof plastic or metal box.


Also.. should I plan on "all" building exterior receptacles to include an in use cover ? If so, where can a fs weather proof cover be used now adays.

Lastly as far as porches are concerned... would a porch light have to be outdoor - weather rated to be installed on the ceiling or wall?

I'm looking at a print and it calls for paddle fan/ lights on the porch, do they make outdoor rated paddle fan/lights?

Thank you.

Rich
 
ritelec said:
Hello.

Pardon my confusion.

Residentially speaking.

I'm in Jersey and have never had an issue wiring exterior receptacles with nm (either the box cut into the sheathing or wired into the back of an fs box).
Or wiring enclosed porch ceilings (with roof) with nm.

Per nec.. should those locations actually be wired in uf? If so, doesn't make much sense to be able to terminate it into a regular "non" weather proof plastic or metal box.


Also.. should I plan on "all" building exterior receptacles to include an in use cover ? If so, where can a fs weather proof cover be used now adays.

Lastly as far as porches are concerned... would a porch light have to be outdoor - weather rated to be installed on the ceiling or wall?

I'm looking at a print and it calls for paddle fan/ lights on the porch, do they make outdoor rated paddle fan/lights?

Thank you.

Rich
Click to expand...

Yes They do make out door rated C-Fans w/light kits. As far as UF vs Romex the AHJ's still allow Romex to WP receptacles & light fixtures. Enforcement of UF vs Romex seems to be a regional thing as far as I can tell. Porch lights out door rated ? I can't imagine a fixture that I would install on a porch that wasn't rated for the location.
 
ritelec said:
Hello.

Pardon my confusion.

Residentially speaking.

I'm in Jersey and have never had an issue wiring exterior receptacles with nm (either the box cut into the sheathing or wired into the back of an fs box).
Or wiring enclosed porch ceilings (with roof) with nm.

Per nec.. should those locations actually be wired in uf? If so, doesn't make much sense to be able to terminate it into a regular "non" weather proof plastic or metal box.


Also.. should I plan on "all" building exterior receptacles to include an in use cover ? If so, where can a fs weather proof cover be used now adays.

Lastly as far as porches are concerned... would a porch light have to be outdoor - weather rated to be installed on the ceiling or wall?

I'm looking at a print and it calls for paddle fan/ lights on the porch, do they make outdoor rated paddle fan/lights?

Thank you.

Rich
Click to expand...

I believe you may be making it more of a Riddle than it really needs to be in my trivial opinion.

If the porch is open and the wiring method is exposed to the same open condition then it is considered either a Damp or Wet Location. If the wiring method is enclosed in the area and simply penetrate the back or sides of a recessed device box then it is a dry location up to and into the device box and would not be an issue for Type NM (Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable). Of course you could use Type UF Cable if you wish as long as you install it in accordance with Article 334 (Part II and III) when used in place of Type NM Cable.

Obviously the luminaries and ceiling fans have to be rated for the environment to which they are exposed but the interior of the wiring component (Device Box or Junction box) would not be considered a wet or damp location when installed properly. In the eyes of the manufacturers (if I am bold enough to speak on their behalf) when a properly listed and identified Ceiling Fan or exterior luminaries is installed it will be designed to protect the connection points via gaskets or other means suitable for the protection.

It is very common to terminate Type NM Cable to a nonmetallic device box or junction box, however the listing of the device box or junction box in question has to be considered. Two wrongs will never make a right...I do agree that the local AHJ may need to be consulted because their view or opinion may vary....I can only speak for the manufactured intent of the product. We believe Section 334.12(B)(4) is fairly clear...but you first have to label the location and determine it's location type...then choose the wiring method appropriately.
 
Thank you MasterTheNEC,

"Shall not be used.... in wet or damp locations."

If there is a closed roof / ceiling I don't think it's a wet location... maybe dampish..?? but in the wall or ceiling??

Maybe a flush mounted box for a light or receptacle on a wall with no overhang, that might be wet or damp? But even there...in the box? If so then the inside of the wall would be getting wet too.

I'm not sure, as mentioned I've never had an issue with the nm.... but sometimes I visit the diy forums and read the "pro's" saying that all of those areas are wet and need uf, so it gets me thinking...
 
ritelec said:
Thank you MasterTheNEC,

"Shall not be used.... in wet or damp locations."

If there is a closed roof / ceiling I don't think it's a wet location... maybe dampish..?? but in the wall or ceiling??

Maybe a flush mounted box for a light or receptacle on a wall with no overhang, that might be wet or damp? But even there...in the box? If so then the inside of the wall would be getting wet too.

I'm not sure, as mentioned I've never had an issue with the nm.... but sometimes I visit the diy forums and read the "pro's" saying that all of those areas are wet and need uf, so it gets me thinking...
Click to expand...

Pro's in a DIY forum...now thats an Oxymoron if ever heard one. No seriously...as I said, if the open porch has a ceiling on it and the Type NM Cable is within the ceiling space then it would be a dry location. I think the issue is when you have a porch that has the Type NM Cable exposed.....so in that case Section 334.12(B)(4) is CRYSTAL:angel:
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Pro's in a DIY forum...now thats an Oxymoron if ever heard one. No seriously...as I said, if the open porch has a ceiling on it and the Type NM Cable is within the ceiling space then it would be a dry location. I think the issue is when you have a porch that has the Type NM Cable exposed.....so in that case Section 334.12(B)(4) is CRYSTAL:angel:
Click to expand...
i dont think so. if the space is open to weather then its either damp or wet location. bringing NM into a wet/damp rated box, i would bridge the path between inside and outside box with a piece of conduit and snake the NM through that to the box.
http://www.paramountlighting.com/Technical Pages/tech page files/wet_locations_def.pdf
 
but to note, i have wet/damp outlet boxes on my home. the front of the boxes are basically flush with the exterior stucco and then a WP cover is put on (the clear plastic flip up types). the wire in the box is NM. so i believe the diff is how the box is mounted. if the box is just surface mounted to outside wall, then NM & conduit, if front of box is flush with exterior wall, then just NM. i no expert like many others here, so there may be a better answer.
 
FionaZuppa said:
i dont think so. if the space is open to weather then its either damp or wet location. bringing NM into a wet/damp rated box, i would bridge the path between inside and outside box with a piece of conduit and snake the NM through that to the box.
http://www.paramountlighting.com/Technical Pages/tech page files/wet_locations_def.pdf
Click to expand...


Some how I think you are missing the "JIST" of what I said. But thats ok...most do as well.

All I can tell you is this.....as I said before- If it is an open porch on all sides......but the ceiling is finished and the space (in the framing) above that ceiling (that is not exposed to the weather) would be a dry location and perfectly fine for Type NM Cable....the fact it feeds a junction or device box that has a luminaire attached that IS required to be rated for a wet or damp location has nothing to do with my statement or use of Type NM Cable in that specific area.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Some how I think you are missing the "JIST" of what I said. But thats ok...most do as well.

All I can tell you is this.....as I said before- If it is an open porch on all sides......but the ceiling is finished and the space (in the framing) above that ceiling (that is not exposed to the weather) would be a dry location and perfectly fine for Type NM Cable....the fact it feeds a junction or device box that has a luminaire attached that IS required to be rated for a wet or damp location has nothing to do with my statement or use of Type NM Cable in that specific area.
Click to expand...

i got ya :thumbsup:, but i still think its a "damp" location per definitions. basements are damp locations yet they are not openly exposed to outside weather.

From the National Electric Code

Dry Locations:
A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness.
A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to
dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under
construction.

Damp Location:
Locations protected from weather and not subject to
saturation with water or other liquids but subject to
moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations
include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed pen porches, and like locations, and
interior locations subject to moderated degrees of moisture,
such as basements, some barns, and some cold storage
buildings.

Wet Locations:
Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in
direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to sat
uration with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas;
and in unprotected locations exposed to weather
 
Strange it says basements. Not some basements. Where should you put a panel and wire a house ?
Should it be an outdoor panel and basement wiring in uf till you go up to the first floor?
 
i was just saying, etc. the outside porch ceiling that is fully closed is no different than vented attic space. i guess NEC has some fixing to do, etc.
 
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