GFCI's failing to ON

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Mayonnaise

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Has anyone experienced when a GFCI had failed to the ON position?
I know that typically when they fail, they fail off.
If you have experienced this, was it recently?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Mayo.
 
Mayonnaise said:
Has anyone experienced when a GFCI had failed to the ON position?
I know that typically when they fail, they fail off.
If you have experienced this, was it recently?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Mayo.
Click to expand...


I thought the newer ones could not fail in the on position but I would not swear to it
 
I am not aware of any GFCI device that fails to off. The newer ones, that have failed GFCI electronics, will not reset after a failed test or after a power failure, but they do not fail to off when the electronic GFCI circuit fails.

Note that there is an even newer standard that takes effect in June of this year that requires the GFCI to provide an indication of failed electronics. One method to indicate failed electronics is to trip the load, but that is not the only method permitted. Audio and/or visual alarms, without tripping the load, are also permitted.
 
Fail like trip or fail like malfunction/get old?

I've seen plenty of GFI's stay on where test button didn't kill power or testing hot to ground didn't trip GFI. In the first example it's usually just seized mechanisms.
 
I learned this from one of Mike Holt's videos;
All gfcis, but Leviton, will fail in on position because they have NC contactor. If the circuit board is fried (10% on average in USA) thru humidity or lighting event it will have its outlet energized.
Leviton has a patent for its Smartlock pro gfci device that cuts the power off if test of gfci fails. It uses NO contactor.
Leviton is happy to sell its patent but who wants to pay for it?

thats why there is the test button so we can test gfci before we use it. like touching the bread if its soft before we eat it :slaphead:

I read somewhere about newest standard or model with electronic self testing feature. thats the way to go:D
 
I wonder if they will get rid of the rediculous "test weekly" printed on the GFCI's since nobody does it anyway. And just let the self test satisfy the requirement.
 
darekelec said:
...
Leviton has a patent for its Smartlock pro gfci device that cuts the power off if test of gfci fails. It uses NO contactor.
Leviton is happy to sell its patent but who wants to pay for it?
...
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but the Smartloc Pro does not cut the power off if it fails its test. It only prevents a reset after a failed test or after a power loss. It does not test its electronics and trip the power if the electronics fail the test. The following is from Leviton's website.
The Reset Lockout feature provides an end-of-life indication and prevents reset if a SmartlockPro GFCI is damaged so that it cannot respond to a ground fault. Competitive GFCIs may allow reset even if they are no longer providing protection.
Click to expand...
Here is their application note on the SmartLoc Pro.
All listed GFCIs made after June of this year must have a self-test system and will not require a monthly test. If the device fails its self test, it can either kill the power to the loads or provide an audible and/or visual signal that it has failed the test.
 
I have seen many devices not reset even with no load. IMO, that is a failure in the off position. Generally I replace the unit and all is well.
 
I know nothing specific about the "smart-pro" devices, but can imagine it is still possible to have the critical controls non functioning - including a loss of alarm if there is one, and still have output contacts closed and the end result is power at the receptacle face but no GFCI protection.

Bottom line is mechanical items can and do fail, this item is just designed to better indicate failure then previous versions of same/similar item.
 
Here is a Cooper I replaced a couple of days ago. Trip indicator light was lit but it was off (no power) and would not reset. Guessing the apparent burned area had something to do with it.

pic.jpg
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I am not aware of any GFCI device that fails to off. The newer ones, that have failed GFCI electronics, will not reset after a failed test or after a power failure, but they do not fail to off when the electronic GFCI circuit fails.

Note that there is an even newer standard that takes effect in June of this year that requires the GFCI to provide an indication of failed electronics. One method to indicate failed electronics is to trip the load, but that is not the only method permitted. Audio and/or visual alarms, without tripping the load, are also permitted.
Click to expand...

I can't wait for folks to install the ones with the audible alarm. Between you "dying battery" smoke detector beep, your "end of life" CO detector beep and now your GFCI failure beep and can see some of my non-tech friends going crazy at the 3 a.m. wake up especially after enough beers.
 
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