Building Automation Contractors

[LLSolutions]

We've been doing the control installations for a few of the gigantic control companies. Always as a sub, we pipe, wire, install devices, terminate, and do limited testing. I'd like to get on the other side of the table with these systems. I know Johnson sells the FX line that is supposedly made for installers to design and sell without going through branch offices and i believe Schneider offers something similar. Few questions for those of you who install these on your own;

What product line do you use / prefer?

How intensive is the programing- let say generic case is 1 air handler, supply fan, return fan, supply, mixed, discharge sensors, economizer package, heating cooling stages or valves and maybe 4 VAVs with zone sensors. A day, a week? Can i fumble through it untill i get proficient or am I going to have to sub this out until i can afford somebody full time?

What pricing method do you use if you're the direct bidder? When we do the wiring we usually point price based on wiring method but I've never really tried to include engineering and design into a price.

How are you acquiring these customers? Do i just start canvasing my local industrial and commercial parks?

thanks in advance

 

[__dan]

I'd like to get on the other side of the table with these systems.

It's a great question and I was hoping for a diversity of responses.

When anyone asks me about electrical as a career I do not recommend it because of the way skilled trade labor is treated by everyone else, except for some niches like digital temp controls, programmable controllers.

The hardware is changing faster than ever and dropping in cost for the features added. There's an underlying revolution based on the GPL license and the Linux kernel, no one can compete with it, and if they tried (wrote their own proprietary operating system) when they tried to sell it they would be years behind the competition and, oh, the competing product is free.

So a new cpu comes out and the manufacturer tweaks the Linux kernel so the chip has an operating system. Because of the GPL license, if they use the code base they owe any changes back into the code base. They cannot charge for the code copies, just service and technical support. So, a new four dollar cpu comes out and it runs a free operating system that has network connection, storage, standardized input/output.

At a certain level you will move from standalone digital controllers like Tekmar, Honeywell, and move to distributed computing, BAS / BAC building automation controls. The manufacturer's offering may be proprietary, but the underlying hardware is all moving to industry standard and sometimes free industry standard parts, RS485, Ethernet IP, access through a web browser. This is pretty much what I would expect from a current generation competitive offering. Mostly, none of the underlying technology is proprietary, so the different offerings are like breeds of dogs or birds.

The manufacturers control the distribution channel with pricing of their parts. Here, I don't know who is better for the contractor. Automated Logic is big in that but I don't know if they will let you compete with them for programming, bid engineering, service, prime contractor system sales direct to the customer, or only as a sub for pipe, cabling, box installs.

For what Automated Logic charges, you could build the entire thing with Allen Bradley PLC's if you figure total system cost over the life of the install, with service and add/changes. The money is in after install service, troubleshooting, adds and changes.

Essentially everyone wants the same thing. They want their brand installed, they will low bid installs, so the customer is locked in to that brand when they need service and changes, where they are sole source and suffer no competitive pricing pressure. There are tons of different brands all trying to get locked in for the future recurring revenue of service and support.

For smaller standalone controls I like Tekmar and Honeywell for easy access and availability. I know I can beat on them for help when I need it and they don't have a problem with that. Mostly, their stuff is well designed and engineered so it works nicely.

For big systems, BAS/BAC, I don't know who is best regarding their treatment of local contractors. The point is that because of the GPL license and the Linux kernel, I'm sure that anyone who is actively competing at the lead, they have all given up on proprietary systems and are running Linux, for cheap small networked processors. Over time, brand choices for hardware will be like cereal boxes at the grocery store, when the market matures. Right now is the time of rapid change.

What you want to see is the IDE, the development environment for software, where the biggest advances have been made. The new IDE's are a lot easier to use. Then the good money will be in programming changes, service, and support, where the big boys are and certainly doing what they can to protect their niche. Because of the Linux kernel and surplus productive capacity in cheap, full featured cpu's, they cannot own the underlying technology. They would have to use generic standard cpu's running Linux.

 

[LLSolutions]

I really want a brand name i can sell but i just want their product and a little support when i have issues. I don't want to waste my time making contacts and selling jobs just to loose the most lucrative part, the maintenance, back to a branch office or another 3rd party. How much of the Tekmar and Honeywell can you do on your own without involving them directly?

 

[__dan]

Usually Tekmar, Honeywell, Heat Timer for specialized standalone digital controllers, not BAS systems. Boiler, valve, outdoor reset controls. I don't have a BAS brand name but there are actually lots of them out there now.

Equipment I wire, most likely the controls package is chosen and supplied by or with the mechanical equipment package, so it could be anything. If the building has an existing BAS, those controls and broken out of the mechanical/electrical package and sole sourced to the vendor who has the maintenance contract for those controls.

In standalone controllers, the internal PID algorithms are tweaked for the application by the manufacturer, so a Honeywell steam valve controller for a huge old stone building that runs two zones and a Tekmar zone controller for in slab radiant heat are two different products even though they may look like similar wall thermostats, they are not the same. When I see something weird that never worked right, I will just call Honeywell, or have the supply house call Honeywell, for a controller recommendation for the application.

For the large BAS system, I don't know if I would have the same access to Honeywell's large system BAS equipment (as a competitor). My guess is no. But there are certainly brands, big and small, who want to line up installing contractors.

The point is, there is something called the IOT, the Internet of Things. It's just beginning, but processing power and the software operating system are dropping so low in cost that these devices will be in everything. This is presently among the domain occupied by BAS systems with proprietary technology.

The IOT will have an explosive growth rate. In order to do that there will have to be shared open standards built around plug and play compatible equipment. It will be high tech but have to be easy to operate.

All the big companies will have offerings, but it's just beginning. I don't know who I would point to as a leader or dominant. Somebody, maybe Google, bought Nest, whose first generation equipment did not do what they said it would do. They are racing to be first mover.

I feel it would require a lot of research to see what the present product and manufacturer's offerings are. I know what I am looking for, a state of the art easy to use IDE development environment, factory technical support, modern features like web browser access, ethernet IP communication for networked distributed standalone processors, and competitive equipment pricing. I don't know who fits that list, but someone will.