CE mark

[electricalist]

Isn't there usually a CSA with a small u s that states it's accepted?

This is from one of the lights We installed and I learned from this site how CSA works. What about CSA with no U.S. ?

 

[electricalist]

I think the inspector was looking at the dark name plate that only shows C E. the other name plate as you all pointed out seems correct and I called my supervisor and it does have verbiage referring to US standards. We do thank everyone for helping sometimes the answer is right there all the time. Still it brought this project to a hold on a minute .

 

[USMC1302]

I can't read the dark label, but from the other you posted, they appear to be different components? The other label listed ratings for 50/60 Hz and was labeled as a heat exchanger. Is this all supposed to be one machine? If the heat exchanger is being used as "part" of the larger machine, I would understand the confusion. Just because there are components that are listed, doesn't mean the machine in total is...at least that makes sense to me.

 

[electricalist]

That's what he basically just said to my boss. 90.7 and 110.3 articles.
He said don't think so to were just providing power to cord connected equipment.

 

[kwired]

That's what he basically just said to my boss. 90.7 and 110.3 articles.
He said don't think so to were just providing power to cord connected equipment.

I have to ask just what requires this "appliance" to be listed in the first place. You could have other source of requirement but I don't believe NEC alone prohibits using this machine.

I run into motor driven machines all the time - the only electric components on them is the motor and maybe a limit switch of some sort in some instances. Most general use motors are not listed, and NEC doesn't require them to be listed either. I really don't see this being all that different, other then it likely meets definition of appliance so you should start to look for what is needed for electrical requirements in 422 instead of 430.

 

[electricalist]

Yes sir will do. The inspector did say no to considering it an appliance though

 

[Jraef]

...
They are precision machining equipment.
...

Read Article 409, I believe it will apply to the control panel that houses whatever is in the overall machining center. I don't see why it makes a difference if it is plug-in or hard wired.

409.1 Scope. This article covers industrial control panels
intended for general use and operating at 600 volts or less.
FPN: UL 508A is a safety standard for industrial control
panels.
409.2 Definitions.
Industrial Control Panel. An assembly of a systematic
and standard arrangement of two or more components such
as motor controllers, overload relays, fused disconnect
switches, and circuit breakers and related control devices
such as pushbutton stations, selector switches, timers,
switches, control relays, and the like with associated wiring,
terminal blocks, pilot lights, and similar components.
The industrial control panel does not include the controlled
equipment.

While it's still true that 409 will not require an NRTL listing, it requires adherence to basic standards of construction, which if it WERE listed, would allow the AHJ to forgo further investigation for approval. But without it, he can insist on you either getting an NRTL listing, or he can open it up and start tearing it apart (figuratively), piece by piece. For example; "Show me the listed ampacity of the conductors used on this circuit? Not using listed wire and it is metric sized? Replace it with listed wire..." etc. etc. etc. You must either be REALLY really nice to him, or go get someone to list the machine for you (in my opinion). This is a common issue with people who import machines. Either the salespeople lead the customers astray by telling them that CE is acceptable, or someone shops for it and orders it directly from the mfr overseas, bypassing an importer who WOULD have known to get it listed first.

I used to take in machinery like this all the time and rebuild the control panels to UL list them. ovens for production bakeries were a very common problem with this, because there will be some specialty product they want to make that took some kind of whiz-bang special Italian oven lined with bricks made from some special mud collected by virgins on a full moon, so they had them imported directly and ended up not being able to install them legally. Most of the time when people find out too late about the UL listing issue like that, they would tell me it would have cost them less to just buy a similar domestically made product. Couldn't find any domestic virgins however...

 

[electricalist]

These were Led from 3G out of Canada http://www.3glighting.com/. The cans were trimless and made to order.

Hey Mr. Dennis on that web page it showed tripple Mr 16 cans. That's what we installed in the Sparks house in Dallas. No fun getting all those to be perfectly straight .

 

[electricalist]

The inspector isn't taking any thing. He says he has to be sure they are safe. They(customer) is looking into someone local. To get the approval.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Isn't there usually a CSA with a small u s that states it's accepted?
This is from one of the lights We installed and I learned from this site how CSA works. What about CSA with no U.S. ?

If the CSA does not have the "us" the product has not been tested to a standard that applies in the US.

 

[electricalist]

It seems as someone pointed out the name plate with the csa is only for the component it's attached to .

 

[electricalist]

Today I ask the supervisor that runs the company where this equipment is and he said they checked into getting a UL certification and its 100 k per machine. They went to the city and explained to the chief elect.inspector they would have to relocate the company to another city to absorb this UL cost.
Now nobody cares about the listing,,the CE is OK with everyone.

 

[Electric-Light]

Today I ask the supervisor that runs the company where this equipment is and he said they checked into getting a UL certification and its 100 k per machine. They went to the city and explained to the chief elect.inspector they would have to relocate the company to another city to absorb this UL cost.
Now nobody cares about the listing,,the CE is OK with everyone.

Does the machine work correctly at 60 Hz?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Today I ask the supervisor that runs the company where this equipment is and he said they checked into getting a UL certification and its 100 k per machine. They went to the city and explained to the chief elect.inspector they would have to relocate the company to another city to absorb this UL cost.
Now nobody cares about the listing,,the CE is OK with everyone.

i had to do a UL listing recently on four large conveyors, and the cost from intertek
to do this, with a prelimiary audit to find issues, and expedited report, was
$9,300, all in. one tech two weeks before cert day, and one day of a tech was what
it amounted to.

nice to see that they got reasonable on the CE listing.... you did know that CE
stands for Close Enough, right?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Couldn't find any domestic virgins however...

and the virgins have to be UL listed, altho in a pinch you can use
a CE listed virgin. (close enough)