LED sign wiring

[Smiley64]

When retrofitting signs to LED I am looking for a lower cost class two wet location two wire cable. Can anyone help me with a type and supplier? When buying from the LED companies we're paying 70 cents a foot for two #12 twisted stranded.
Thanks in advance.

 

[GoldDigger]

For Class 2, wet. I would check the price on landscape lighting cable. It might need protection from physical damage in some areas.

 

[iwire]

For Class 2, wet. I would check the price on landscape lighting cable. It might need protection from physical damage in some areas.

Likely cannot be run inside the building to the power supplies due to lack of fire resistance listing.

 

[iwire]

When retrofitting signs to LED I am looking for a lower cost class two wet location two wire cable.

What code section requires wet location cable?

 

[Electric-Light]

For Class 2, wet. I would check the price on landscape lighting cable. It might need protection from physical damage in some areas.

Some LEDs simply run on DC 12v DC power while some use a polarized ballast.

Some LED ballasts exceed the allowance of Class 2 and they can not be wired using limited energy wiring and these have to be wired the same way as fluorescent lamps.

"UL Class 2 drivers comply with standard UL1310, meaning output is considered safe to contact and no major safety protection is required at the LED / luminaire level. There is no risk of fire or electric shock. These drivers operate using less than 60 volts in dry applications, 30 volts in wet applications, less than 5 amps, and less than 100 watts. However, these limitations pose restrictions on the number of LEDs a Class 2 driver can operate.

UL Class 1 drivers have output ranges outside UL Class 2 designations. An LED Driver with a UL Class 1 rating has a high-voltage output and safety protection is required within the fixture. A Class 1 driver can accommodate more LEDs, making it more efficient than a Class 2 driver."

 

[Smiley64]

replies

replies

Landscape cable does cost less but can not be indoors due to smoke.
The inside of signs and the neon raceway for channel letters is wet.
The LED and driver suppliers say class 2 wire.
I'd rather use a cable than just two twisted.

 

[Electric-Light]

When retrofitting signs to LED I am looking for a lower cost class two wet location two wire cable. Can anyone help me with a type and supplier? When buying from the LED companies we're paying 70 cents a foot for two #12 twisted stranded.
Thanks in advance.

What is the specs on the LED ballast?
There are two types. Constant voltage "power supply" and constant current "ballast".

Constant current (series wired) maintains consistent output throughput the chain, although these are more often class 1 as the available voltage is generally higher.

12v CV is a pain and don't handle distance well. LED elements on far end will get less voltage which may actually justify a 12 awg

 

[iwire]

What is the specs on the LED ballast?
There are two types. Constant voltage "power supply" and constant current "ballast".

Constant current (series wired) maintains consistent output throughput the chain, although these are more often class 1 as the available voltage is generally higher.

12v CV is a pain and don't handle distance well. LED elements on far end will get less voltage which may actually justify a 12 awg

I am guessing you have not seen the wiring of many LED signs, usually there are multiple class 2 power supplies along the length of the sign and the LEDs are wired with 16 or 18 AWG.

 

[Electric-Light]

I am guessing you have not seen the wiring of many LED signs, usually there are multiple class 2 power supplies along the length of the sign and the LEDs are wired with 16 or 18 AWG.

There are many different kinds of LED ballasts, and lamps.

One example wires up just like MR16 lamps. This is the one that could justify 12 AWG wire depending on secondary distance.

Consumer types basically use permanently installed 12v AC adapters
12v constant voltage, limited power. 0-5A. If you have a long cable run, 18 AWG can cause the far end to be dimmer than the closer end.

When you include class 1, there's one LED ballast that is 150W rated for 530mA output and push 0.53A through LEDs up to a total of 280v. The lamps are daisy chained like sections of neon lamps or series wired street lights but you can be assured every part of the chain will light up evenly even with a mile long 18 AWG loop.