10 master electricians questions.

[jbelectric777]

1) As per the NEC, the distance measured horizontally from an underground tanks fuel vent is how many feet to be in a classified area/zone?
A) 18 B) 20 C) 25 D) 30
2) Under article 680 (Swimming pools), Give the maximum diameter for decorative fountains before they are subject to NEC requirements.
A) 2’ B) 4’ C) 6’ D) 8’
3) A motor control start button is normally open, momentary. Note: mechanical, not PLC
True False
3) What size conductor from the 75c column would you use for a mobile home parks main service, knowing the net computed volt-amperes is 387,000 VA. The service is 120/240V single phase.
A) 4 sets 600kcmil B) 3 sets 500kcmil C) 4 sets 400kcmil D) 1 set 750kcmil
4) Voltage drop is considered by the NEC as “practical” at what percentage of supply service entrance to the last over current protective device?
A) 5 B) 4 C) 3 D) 2

5) How many four way switches are needed to control a lighting fixture from 5 locations?
A) 3 B) 4 C) 5 D) 1
6) What is the identification color for a service 120/240 single phase grounded conductor?
A) Any, so long as marked at main B) White or natural grey C) Green or bare D) Orange
7) What is the ampacity of a #10AWG copper THHN as per 310.15(B)(16) column 90c ?
A) 30A B) 25 C) 20 D) 15
8) In dwellings, a main panel with breakers or fuses can be installed in room with a toilet?
True False
9) Electric baseboard heating with a connected load of: 30kw in a dwelling where the service is 120/240V requires how many 20 amp 240V branch circuits?
A) 4 B) 7 C) 8 D) 10
10) Given: 3- 40 ohm resistors, 2 – 100 ohm resistors connected in series will draw a current of:_______
At a voltage of 120V.
A) 0.375 B) .0380 C) 3.075 C) .320


These are "starter" questions 1-10 for master electrician license in PA (yes we are trying our best to get it but who has that kind of money to lobby?)
Anyway - Answer them and toss your positive or negative feedback to me. I wanna know they are fair questions to ask. Ps assume all copper

 

[infinity]

A few observations:
IMO, in question #4 recommended would be a better word than practical. In #6- natural gray has been removed from the NEC. In #7 you're missing the correct answer of 40 amps. In #8 main panel is not defined in the NEC.

 

[bphgravity]

Have you considered reaching out to the NASCLA for assistance getting certification exams & licensing in your state? Go here: http://www.nascla.org/

 

[augie47]

I think #8 should clarify: toilet (only) or toilet +

 

[jumper]

# 10 answer is missing units. Amps or amperes.

 

[bphgravity]

There really is no reason to re-invent the wheel here. In addition to the NASCLA, there are not less than dozen other agencies that have accredited master-level exams already prepared and ready to go.

Even those tried and tested exams get immense scrutiny from the electrical community, but nothing like you are going to get trying to create your own exam from scratch.

 

[charlie b]

I think the person(s) who wrote these questions was (were) trying to be clever, or more to the point trying to trick the reader. As Gus pointed out, in #8 they are trying to trick the reader into saying a panel is not allowed in a bathroom, but they know that just having a toilet does not make a room a bathoom by the NEC definition. I think that the trick in #7 is that the question's author believes that the rule that requires a #10 to be protected at no more than 30 amps causes the ampacity of the conductor to be 30 amps. That is not true. The correct answer to #9 would really depend on how the heaters are built. There is no statement that the heaters are identical, and that the 30kW is to be evenly distributed amongst the circuits.

 

[jbelectric777]

these questions

these questions

Thanks for the input. I am not allowed to be for or against, so don't hurt the messenger. I chose this forum because of diversity and we have a lot of good, knowledgeable guys/gals in here. I will copy / paste and keep it filed for our next meeting. These actually came from exams from 5 different states. Now I want to see the outcome of them. Thanks again! JB

 

[jbelectric777]

response

response

You all had valid replies, Rob, that must have been an oversight (40) also, grey for ID could have been better put, but it was meant for when there are two dissimilar voltages in the same building. Augie - I don't think they wanted to stress so much that a toilet in a room is not a bathroom, the thought was to be sure the test taker knew his definitions, which to me are the keys to the lock, so to speak. Midjumper (I think) Current (I) I think current should be known at a 5 year level but yes you are correct, it should say "How many amperes will this draw. Another member wanted to put in parallel but we all sometimes need to go to our books: 1/R1 + 1/R2 sum = R1 + R2 / 1 just didn't see the need for an electrical contractor to know that, he/she is a wireman, we deliver, install wiring systems and were not engineers, (some of us are but not contracting or inspecting) I took some practice tests (just to see what was on it) and there was a lot of power factor, efficiency etc. now that should be known but only to a point, I mean the POCO is responsible for proper delivery and distribution. And Bryan You had the best answer of them all! I'm going to check that link ASAP.
I already made the call "Why re-invent the wheel !" I love it. What will that organization do?

 

[jbelectric777]

response to charlie b moderator

response to charlie b moderator

Hi Charlie, You also had valid replies as well, however I have to dis agree (which is healthy and means no dis respect) on what you said about the number of 20 amp branch circuits for 30kw of a heating load in a dwelling.

It had nothing to do with balancing the load, all the question was meant to do is be sure the test taker knew to multiply by 1.25 and calculate the minimum number 20 amp circuits needed. 30kw x 1.25 (37.5kw)/240 (156.25) / 20 (7.8125) (8) they can be done on 30 amp branch circuits as well - 156.25/30 = 5.208 (6) I don't know about you but I'd use #12, the cost of copper is through the roof anymore and the reason is supply/demand. All the rebuilding in China after that devastating Tsunami, now the other catastrophe they had they need as much copper as they can find. But one thing still holds true, people in the business can talk about the codebook till Kingdom come, its like politics and religion, there is never really a winner. I bet they could cut that book in half and still have a safe, efficient installation. Seriously, How many times do you go to Chapter 8 for PL cable or communications circuits, I'll tell ya when - When you are taking a test or someone asks you. Anyway I think I'm gonna do this Bryans way and click that link.

 

[jbelectric777]

see below

see below

Bryan, I contacted them. I should be getting a response soon! Thanks JB

 

[charlie b]

Hi Charlie, You also had valid replies as well, however I have to disagree (which is healthy and means no disrespect) on what you said about the number of 20 amp branch circuits for 30kw of a heating load in a dwelling.

You are certainly welcome to disagree; I do not take offence when members of this forum disagree with me. My point was that the question was poorly worded, and I don't think you are disagreeing with that.

I figured out what the question’s author was looking for, and I also came up with 8 as the answer. But I don’t think a test question should cause the reader to have to distinguish between the words that are written and the author’s intended meaning. Questions should be clear, and most of these are not. It would have been clearer if the question were worded along the lines of, “what is the minimum number of circuits . . . .” I had to infer that the question was looking for a minimum, but the word “minimum” was not included in the question. Instead, the question included the word "required," and that tends to imply that there is a code article that dictates how the circuits are to be designed. The code does not do that at all.

I also think that test questions should not intentionally lead the reader down the wrong path. Question #8 does exactly that. By way of a counter-example, I had a chemistry professor who gave a quiz every Friday. The questions were always of the “multiple choice” variety, with five possible answers for each question. He would think of the four most likely mistakes a student might make, calculate the answer that each mistake would give, and those four (incorrect) answers were all listed among the choices. He was not leading us down the wrong path. But he would not stop us from taking the wrong path on our own. He wasn’t being unfair either; he told us at the start of the term that his quizzes would be created in that way.

 

[K8MHZ]

You are certainly welcome to disagree; I do not take offence when members of this forum disagree with me. My point was that the question was poorly worded, and I don't think you are disagreeing with that.

I figured out what the question’s author was looking for, and I also came up with 8 as the answer. But I don’t think a test question should cause the reader to have to distinguish between the words that are written and the author’s intended meaning. Questions should be clear, and most of these are not. It would have been clearer if the question were worded along the lines of, “what is the minimum number of circuits . . . .” I had to infer that the question was looking for a minimum, but the word “minimum” was not included in the question. Instead, the question included the word "required," and that tends to imply that there is a code article that dictates how the circuits are to be designed. The code does not do that at all.

I also think that test questions should not intentionally lead the reader down the wrong path. Question #8 does exactly that. By way of a counter-example, I had a chemistry professor who gave a quiz every Friday. The questions were always of the “multiple choice” variety, with five possible answers for each question. He would think of the four most likely mistakes a student might make, calculate the answer that each mistake would give, and those four (incorrect) answers were all listed among the choices. He was not leading us down the wrong path. But he would not stop us from taking the wrong path on our own. He wasn’t being unfair either; he told us at the start of the term that his quizzes would be created in that way.

I agree with you on so many levels. I wish the test writers would understand what you have posted. Most don't. Trick questions don't measure a person's ability to do a craft or a trade. They do measure a person's ability to take tests and spot trick (deceitful sometimes) questions. A good test taker doth not a tradesman make.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

My comments in red.

1) As per the NEC, the distance measured horizontally from an underground tanks fuel vent is how many feet to be in a classified area/zone?
A) 18 B) 20 C) 25 D) 30
none of the above
2) Under article 680 (Swimming pools), Give the maximum diameter for decorative fountains before they are subject to NEC requirements.
A) 2’ B) 4’ C) 6’ D) 8’
none of the above
3) A motor control start button is normally open, momentary. Note: mechanical, not PLC
True False
While an NO button would be by far the most common, I have seen and installed relay logic circuits where an NC was the start button. There is also no reason why the start button has to be momentary.
...
8) In dwellings, a main panel with breakers or fuses can be installed in room with a toilet?
True False
Maybe. The question does not tell me that the toilet is the only plumbing fixture in the room.
...
These are "starter" questions 1-10 for master electrician license in PA (yes we are trying our best to get it but who has that kind of money to lobby?)
Anyway - Answer them and toss your positive or negative feedback to me. I wanna know they are fair questions to ask. Ps assume all copper

 

[jbelectric777]

Don - I have no idea where they came from, the author, what edition they are from. I was asked to present them and thought this would be the best place. Why do so many electricians get offended like you just spit on them. I don't give two [you know whats] about them, I'll never ask for an opinion again and if one of the moderators would be so kind, I would love this CLOSED

 

[ActionDave]

Don - I have no idea where they came from, the author, what edition they are from. I was asked to present them and thought this would be the best place. Why do so many electricians get offended like you just spit on them. I don't give two [you know whats] about them, I'll never ask for an opinion again and if one of the moderators would be so kind, I would love this CLOSED

What are you getting so offended about? You asked for input and you got it.

Most good electricians don't mind being tested or challenged, they actually like it.

Charlie B and kwired summed up very well the philosophy of a good test question, everybody else pointed out what why some of the questions you asked about are bad.

 

[infinity]

Don - I have no idea where they came from, the author, what edition they are from. I was asked to present them and thought this would be the best place. Why do so many electricians get offended like you just spit on them. I don't give two [you know whats] about them, I'll never ask for an opinion again and if one of the moderators would be so kind, I would love this CLOSED

Not sure why you would post these questions, ask for opinions and then complain about those opinions. Regardless, as requested the thread is now closed.