Island?

[mjf]

this does not qualify as an island.




But does this?

 

[kwired]

this does not qualify as an island. View attachment 13972




But does this? View attachment 13973

I would say both are islands, but the first doesn't have counter space large enough to require any receptacles to be installed there, the second likely is large enough counter space.

Second might be a peninsula - IDK but still mostly same receptacle requirements apply.

 

[mgookin]

I would say both are islands, but the first doesn't have counter space large enough to require any receptacles to be installed there, the second likely is large enough counter space.

Second might be a peninsula - IDK but still mostly same receptacle requirements apply.

The 2nd one is touching the wall. Doesn't that make it a peninsula?

And there's a receptacle right there; does that count?

 

[kwired]

The 2nd one is touching the wall. Doesn't that make it a peninsula?

And there's a receptacle right there; does that count?

I was thinking one could put a receptacle on the wall above that counter - yet missed the one that is there somehow. Not directly above counter but close enough (maybe?) GFCI protection and whether or not it is part of SABC's is also another issue.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What I see is an island in an existing occupancy that has been altered into a peninsula. The carpentry change of the island doesn't, in any way, by itself, alter any wiring that exists.

Therefore, the question is, what local ordinance, if any, requires any electrical improvement to an existing Premises Wiring (System) that was wired correctly to the Code in effect at the time of its original installation, when a later alteration in the occupancy occurs?

In this case, the simple adding of the counter cutting board area attached to the wall / window does not require an electrical rule in the NEC to have to be applied, in my opinion.

 

[kwired]

What I see is an island in an existing occupancy that has been altered into a peninsula. The carpentry change of the island doesn't, in any way, by itself, alter any wiring that exists.

Therefore, the question is, what local ordinance, if any, requires any electrical improvement to an existing Premises Wiring (System) that was wired correctly to the Code in effect at the time of its original installation, when a later alteration in the occupancy occurs?

In this case, the simple adding of the counter cutting board area attached to the wall / window does not require an electrical rule in the NEC to have to be applied, in my opinion.

When do we draw the line at what building/components changes trigger a need to comply with any impact that effects NEC requirements?

If they placed a sink there instead of the range does that trigger GFCI requirement for the existing receptacle that likely is less then 6 feet from the sink?

If there were no island at all and they add one is it exempt from needing receptacles?

If it were existing perimeter wall countertop and they added two more feet of counter - would it need additional receptacle if existing receptacles were not within two feet of the end of new counter section?

The fact this added counter area is a makeshift kind of thing and not so permanent maybe factors in there some. I bet no permits were issued to install that counter anyway (if they are even required in the first place).

 

[infinity]

An island wouldn't touch the wall so I agree an island and a peninsula.

 

[charlie b]

Am I the only one (other than the person who took the photos) to observe (or at least to mention) that this is a pair of photos of the same installation? There is a hinge on the butcher block piece to the right side of the stove. The block is lowered in one photo and raised in the other. This is neither an island nor a penninsula. It is nothing more than a stove in the middle of the kitchen floor area. More to the point, there are no island countertop spaces nor penninsula countertop spaces, so no receptacle need be installed on this thing. I would equate the butcher block piece as being the same as bringing a portable table into the kitchen and setting it between the stove and the wall.

 

[kwired]

Am I the only one (other than the person who took the photos) to observe (or at least to mention) that this is a pair of photos of the same installation? There is a hinge on the butcher block piece to the right side of the stove. The block is lowered in one photo and raised in the other. This is neither an island nor a penninsula. It is nothing more than a stove in the middle of the kitchen floor area. More to the point, there are no island countertop spaces nor penninsula countertop spaces, so no receptacle need be installed on this thing. I would equate the butcher block piece as being the same as bringing a portable table into the kitchen and setting it between the stove and the wall.

I figured it was same kitchen, did not notice the extension being folded down in the first photo - but now mostly agree with you.

I think it is still an island - but unless the extension gets counted - doesn't have enough counter space to require any receptacles.

 

[mgookin]

Am I the only one (other than the person who took the photos) to observe (or at least to mention) that this is a pair of photos of the same installation? There is a hinge on the butcher block piece to the right side of the stove. The block is lowered in one photo and raised in the other. This is neither an island nor a penninsula. It is nothing more than a stove in the middle of the kitchen floor area. More to the point, there are no island countertop spaces nor penninsula countertop spaces, so no receptacle need be installed on this thing. I would equate the butcher block piece as being the same as bringing a portable table into the kitchen and setting it between the stove and the wall.

You got me (and everyone else). I thought it was pictures of something as it was being built. Now that you say that the butcher block is indeed shown folded down in the first picture.

I can only imagine posing this to 100 first year inspectors and seeing what each of them says about it. (I can say that because I used to be one).

 

[al hildenbrand]

I would equate the butcher block piece as being the same as bringing a portable table into the kitchen and setting it between the stove and the wall.

Thanks, Charlie, for you observation of the hinges. I missed that. Close examination leads me to see the unpainted drywall patching below the window (1st photo), and the slight gap at the far (right hand) edge of the cutting board (2nd photo).

I can't equate this cutting board to a "portable" table, as the cutting board is attached to the cabinet it serves.

With the cutting board up, to my eye, there appears to be 12" of counter from the edge of the range to the end of the cutting board, but only a site measurement can verify. The drywall patch leads me to suspect, now, that this is all one project, that is, the removal / repair of what was there (with out 50% or more of the wall being opened) AND the installation of a new island (not peninsula) with attached counter that is 12" wide. . .

As a new construction assembly, the "island" would need to be served by a receptacle satisfying the current Code in effect in that jurisdiction.

Now, just for giggles, IF that receptacle at the switch, per the 2014 NEC, is TR, GFI protected and AFCI protected, I'd say it serves that island counter.

 

[mjf]

Sorry to not have given more info or better pictures. Was running out the door this morning and posted them quickly.

This is an existing install. The butcher block does not in fact touch the wall. Customer is getting new countertops (and island tops) and tiling the backsplash.

I was doing some updating and box extensions, etc. While I was there, I did turn that 2g box into a 3g with a TR GFCI (2008, no AFCI).

I like what Charlie said regarding the similarity to putting a table there.