I dont think I should do this!

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iwire said:
OK so we have to independently support troughers that sit in the grid to protect firefighters but we are going with tie wraps alone for fixtures that are not sitting in the grid.

A bit of heat from a fire and the fixtures fall like rain.

Sorry I would not use tie wraps.
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Nor I.

JAP>
 
kenman215 said:
Then tell your customer that you'll certify the electrical install, but want them to sign a liability waiver on the fixture mounting. If they're completely sure of the zip tie methodology, they shouldn't have a problem signing it.
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A liability waiver in my opinion is an acknowledgement by you that you made a substandard installation. The lawyers will eat you alive.

Try Gripple Products...http://www.gripple.com/gb/en/p1/a6/standard-hanger... Or use the track fixture posted by Dennis Alwon
 
John120/240 said:
A liability waiver in my opinion is an acknowledgement by you that you made a substandard installation. The lawyers will eat you alive.
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aside from the fact that in the PRC you can't waive either
your personal liability, or your personal safety.

we could only hope that if the lights fall, they take out a
few attorneys...... it'd be a shame to waste a perfectly
good luminare....
 
John120/240 said:
A liability waiver in my opinion is an acknowledgement by you that you made a substandard installation. The lawyers will eat you alive.

Try Gripple Products...http://www.gripple.com/gb/en/p1/a6/standard-hanger... Or use the track fixture posted by Dennis Alwon
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I don't think anyone here disagrees with the fact that what the customer wants and is willing to pay for in this case is anything other than a substandard installation my friend. And that is exactly why liability waivers exist. If you get carpet in your basement and don't want to pay for the right padding, the installation will never be warranteed. To protect the installer, a liability waiver is signed. I have a friend who does this for a living, has been sued a half a dozen times for this exact thing. Plaintiffs lawyered up or not, he has never lost. But he also records the conversation as well...
 
John120/240 said:
A liability waiver in my opinion is an acknowledgement by you that you made a substandard installation. The lawyers will eat you alive.

Try Gripple Products...http://www.gripple.com/gb/en/p1/a6/standard-hanger... Or use the track fixture posted by Dennis Alwon
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And ideally the mere mentioning of the waiver simply serves to reenforce the seriousness of your assertion and the severe level of discomfort you have with what the customer is proposing, scaring them into reconsidering their position.
 
kenman215 said:
And ideally the mere mentioning of the waiver simply serves to reenforce the seriousness of your assertion and the severe level of discomfort you have with what the customer is proposing, scaring them into reconsidering their position.
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That is exactly correct.

jap>
 
kenman215 said:
I don't think anyone here disagrees with the fact that what the customer wants and is willing to pay for in this case is anything other than a substandard installation my friend. And that is exactly why liability waivers exist. If you get carpet in your basement and don't want to pay for the right padding, the installation will never be warranteed. To protect the installer, a liability waiver is signed. I have a friend who does this for a living, has been sued a half a dozen times for this exact thing. Plaintiffs lawyered up or not, he has never lost. But he also records the conversation as well...
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There is no such thing as waving liability if you did it.


John120/240 is right it would only be anaknoledgment that you as a professional that the installation was poor..
 
1haz said:
... I explained the liability of Zip tying and they kinda agree but said this is how all their stores do it. ...
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1/16" aircraft cable—480 lbs. break strength. Not quite as easy to install as a zip tie... but then again, there's a reason for that. :blink:

If you need to make it non-marring, use some "spaghetti" or similar.
(examples: http://www.awcwire.com/categorygroup.aspx?id=tubing)
 
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We all know that a fixture that weighs less then 30 pounds can hang from the supply conductors if the primary mounting method fails, and even a few over 30 pounds can, just depends on the quality of the wire connectors used.:cool:
 
FWIW, I have a big box of zip ties that I keep for... well, whenever I need one. It's a mixture of old and new, big and small, etc. Not too long ago I needed a large one so I went rummaging through the box and came up with a several years old bag of large white ones. I looped the tie through whatever it was I was wanting to tie together, pulled the tip through the lock, pulled it tight and it snapped. Broke right near the lock. I took another one out of the bag and bent it, and it broke at about a 90 degree bend. They were all like that.

'Nuff said.
 
There's a big difference between retail display and a 50 year installation.

Retail displays can have containers of gasoline, acetone, gunpowder, etc. They are short term and always visible (on display).

Hanging troughers would not be in the same category.

I respect those who say no to a zip tie; it's your profession and life investment on the line and nobody should ever be coerced into doing anything they are not comfortable with.

The question which rises is "Does a retail display of powered up lighting fixtures have to comply with code?". I'd say no. The building wiring supplying the display does have to comply but I'd consider the display to be from the plug outward to the fixture.
Any thoughts on that?
 
mgookin said:
There's a big difference between retail display and a 50 year installation.

Retail displays can have containers of gasoline, acetone, gunpowder, etc. They are short term and always visible (on display).

Hanging troughers would not be in the same category.

I respect those who say no to a zip tie; it's your profession and life investment on the line and nobody should ever be coerced into doing anything they are not comfortable with.

The question which rises is "Does a retail display of powered up lighting fixtures have to comply with code?". I'd say no. The building wiring supplying the display does have to comply but I'd consider the display to be from the plug outward to the fixture.
Any thoughts on that?
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I know of nothing in the NEC or local ordinaries putting retail displays of hard wired lighting fixtures beyond the NEC.

The NEC states temporary installations shall comply with the NEC except as modified by 590.
 
iwire said:
I know of nothing in the NEC or local ordinaries putting retail displays of hard wired lighting fixtures beyond the NEC.

The NEC states temporary installations shall comply with the NEC except as modified by 590.
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They are not hard wired. They are plugged in.

Didn't op say they had a plug on them?

Put 30 compliant receptacle outlets above, hang them, plug them in.
 
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