Multiple services in building

[Joefiorello]

Today in a apartment building I saw something and wanted to ask you about it. The building is fed by one service which feeds all the apartments and common areas and equipment. That was the original and then years down the road Service 2 of 2 was added for some air conditioner units for the building. So this is a completely separate service with its own Service lateral coming into the building. An electrician at some point had circuits that were part of Service 1 of 2 and used the service 2 of 2 as a junction box for it. Splices were made up in that panel. What is the ruling of one service being involved with another service as far as junctions, conduits, etc.

 

[ActionDave]

Welcome to the forum. Good question.

An electrician at some point had circuits that were part of Service 1 of 2 and used the service 2 of 2 as a junction box for it. Splices were made up in that panel. What is the ruling of one service being involved with another service as far as junctions, conduits, etc.

I'm confused about this part and need some clarity.

 

[user 100]

Today in a apartment building I saw something and wanted to ask you about it. The building is fed by one service which feeds all the apartments and common areas and equipment. That was the original and then years down the road Service 2 of 2 was added for some air conditioner units for the building. So this is a completely separate service with its own Service lateral coming into the building. An electrician at some point had circuits that were part of Service 1 of 2 and used the service 2 of 2 as a junction box for it. Splices were made up in that panel. What is the ruling of one service being involved with another service as far as junctions, conduits, etc.

So the electrician used the panelboard from svc 2 as a junction point for some of the cts fed by svc 1?

 

[electrofelon]

Today in a apartment building I saw something and wanted to ask you about it. The building is fed by one service which feeds all the apartments and common areas and equipment. That was the original and then years down the road Service 2 of 2 was added for some air conditioner units for the building. So this is a completely separate service with its own Service lateral coming into the building. An electrician at some point had circuits that were part of Service 1 of 2 and used the service 2 of 2 as a junction box for it. Splices were made up in that panel. What is the ruling of one service being involved with another service as far as junctions, conduits, etc.

Are the "services" grouped? It could be just a second set of service entrance conductors and not a second service.

 

[kwired]

Up to six sets of conductors that originate at same point but land in separate service disconnecting means is still considered one service (a meter(s) would be permitted before the service disconnects), but those service disconnecting means need to be grouped at one location if all are supplying same building or structure.

If you have a situation where you can technically call different sections of the facility separate buildings even though they are a single structure - you can't feed one building through another.

Not sure exactly what you have or if what I mentioned addressed a situation you do have in any way.

 

[Joefiorello]

So the electrician used the panelboard from svc 2 as a junction point for some of the cts fed by svc 1?

Yes exactly, Service 2 is completely seperate from service 1 with its own feeders coming in from the street at a different part of the building.

 

[kwired]

The junctions in the other panel aren't necessarily a code issue, it is the improper installation of more then one service that is a code issue.

 

[iwire]

Yes exactly, Service 2 is completely seperate from service 1 with its own feeders coming in from the street at a different part of the building.

Are the services different voltages?

Perhaps a 120/240 single phase for the apartments and the second service 208Y/120 or 480Y/277 three phase?

230.2(D) Different Characteristics. Additional services shall
be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases,
or for different uses, such as for different rate schedules.

 

[iwire]

The junctions in the other panel aren't necessarily a code issue,

I agree

it is the improper installation of more then one service that is a code issue.

Insufficient info to know that yet.

 

[kwired]

I agree



Insufficient info to know that yet.

I agree there isn't enough information but seems to be heading in a bad direction with what we have so far.

 

[Joefiorello]

Are the services different voltages?

Perhaps a 120/240 single phase for the apartments and the second service 208Y/120 or 480Y/277 three phase?

Yes 120/240 single phase for the first service and then 208y/120 for the 3 phase

 

[iwire]

Yes 120/240 single phase for the first service and then 208y/120 for the 3 phase

That is fine and not required to be grouped.

 

[kwired]

Yes 120/240 single phase for the first service and then 208y/120 for the 3 phase

Just one minor detail that changes nearly everything said so far.

 

[construct]

Just one minor detail that changes nearly everything said so far.

 

[Smart $]

Yes 120/240 single phase for the first service and then 208y/120 for the 3 phase

A side issue of different voltage systems on premises is ungrounded branch circuit conductors require identification throughout. See 210.5(C).

Conductors of different systems in the same enclosure, box, or such, and in the same voltage class is not an issue by itself as long as all conductor insulation is rated for the highest voltage. Single conductor building wire for Chapter 3 wiring methods is all rated 600V AFAIK.