What Classified Area does a Moonshine Distillery fall under

[BoWall]

Here in Tennessee Moonshine Distillery`s are become popular and I have been asked to change the Electrical and bring them up to code.
The question is what Classification and Division would this fall under. The product does not seem toxic but moonshine itself is flammable.
Would this be considered Class 1 Div. 1 or can we get by with Class 1 Div. 2.

 

[rbalex]

I'm stunned. This drew an incredible amount of attention from other members.:happyyes:

Personally, I did one brewery many, many years ago and I've never done a distillery.

Ethanol (grain alcohol) is a Class I, Group D material. Basically, Divisions are determined by the process volumes, pressures and temperatures.

Because the process heats the material well above its auto ignition temperature it will have both Division 1 and 2 although Division 1 will probably be limited to the internals of the various vessels you may use and around any potential pressure relief devices and process output.

Without actually seeing the process layout, the above is my "best guess".

 

[peter d]

I'm guessing this is a legal distillery? Because if it's the illegal variety, I highly doubt area classification is of much concern. :lol::lol:

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'm guessing this is a legal distillery? Because if it's the illegal variety, I highly doubt area classification is of much concern. :lol::lol:

quick test for classification:

is the condenser made out of an old truck radiator, cleaned
out really good?
yes? no further classification is needed. bad stuff, don't drink.

is the still made out of pure copper, free from lead?
yes? good to drink, probably. YMMV.

i knew a guy who used to make a run once a year up on
the backside of big bear mountain. it's a lot of work, it takes
all night, and in the morning, you have the worst hangover
from putting chew in the cheek, and washing twisted and doubled
whiskey over it all night long.
(whiskey was aged in gallon milk containers at least 30 minutes before drinking.)

no discussion of proper classification or division was made, once
we determined it was righteous 'shine, made properly.

 

[BoWall]

Here in Tennessee Moonshine Distillery`s are become popular and I have been asked to change the Electrical and bring them up to code.
The question is what Classification and Division would this fall under. The product does not seem toxic but moonshine itself is flammable.
Would this be considered Class 1 Div. 1 or can we get by with Class 1 Div. 2.

Yes,The Distillery is legal, they have stores in the front and the product is made in a viewing area so the public can watch. The problem is the so called electrician that made the connections did not know about Hazardous Classifications and thought that a seal-off meant silicone around the LB`s, he most likely got paid by how much he could consume. But this is a serious issue and I could use some guidance.

 

[mgookin]

Yes,The Distillery is legal, they have stores in the front and the product is made in a viewing area so the public can watch. The problem is the so called electrician that made the connections did not know about Hazardous Classifications and thought that a seal-off meant silicone around the LB`s, he most likely got paid by how much he could consume. But this is a serious issue and I could use some guidance.

Products with the name "Moonshine" are becoming popular from a marketing perspective. If you ignore the word "moonshine" and just call it spirits like any other (whiskey, rum, tequila, etc.) you can treat it like any other distillery.

As Bob was saying, throughout the process you have different degrees of hazard, as with most manufacturing processes.

I remember when the first water bottling plant came to town and the fire marshal made them sprinkle the water bottling plant! They had huge rooms filled with empty bottles (high piled combustible storage).

 

[oldsparky52]

But this is a serious issue and I could use some guidance.

I agree with you, and if it were me, I'd have a discussion with the AHJ. You might need to have an engineer make the call for you and the AHJ.

 

[rbalex]

... But this is a serious issue and I could use some guidance.

I understood you to be serious and I gave you the best guidance you are likely to get.

I told you, inside the vessels will be Division 1. Around any pressure relief vents and the finishing spigot will also be Division 1. These are about the only facts you can be sure of. Typically, the Division 1 envelopes would have about a 3' radius from the source.

There could be a great variance with the Division 2 envelope. Depending on the pressures and volumes involved, it could extend anywhere between 2' to 25' beyond the Division 1 envelope and they would drop to grade. There could also be a 2' high Division 2 envelope at grade that extends an additional 25' to 50'.

The problem is there is no "one size fits all solution". It takes a knowledgable analysis of the overall process and physical equipment arrangement. I will tell you that if you go to a local AHJ, you are very likely to get it over-classified.

 

[dkidd]

I understood you to be serious and I gave you the best guidance you are likely to get.

I agree with that.

 

[jumper]

I'm stunned. This drew an incredible amount of attention from other members.:happyyes:

Strictly professional interest.:angel:

I gotta check something, water has a boiling point or 212F and alcohol is ~173F. Right? Just curious......

 

[rbalex]

Strictly professional interest.:angel:

I gotta check something, water has a boiling point or 212F and alcohol is ~173F. Right? Just curious......

That's about right; but more important, it has a flashpoint of about 55°F. In other words, it's flammable at room temperature. It does have a fairly benign T2A, T-Code

 

[GoldDigger]

But the boiling point of an alcohol/water mixture can be higher than for either alone.
Also note that we need to look at the flash point, as jraef noted, not the autoignition temperature as mentioned earlier.
I expect the flashpoint of an alcohol water mixture to be higher than that of pure alcohol and the distillery will not be producing pure alcohol. They may store it for use as a cleaning solvent though.

 

[wwhitney]

But the boiling point of an alcohol/water mixture can be higher than for either alone.

I don't think that happens for ethanol/water, although apparently it can happen for other mixtures.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rbalex]

But the boiling point of an alcohol/water mixture can be higher than for either alone.
Also note that we need to look at the flash point, as jraef noted, not the autoignition temperature as mentioned earlier.
I expect the flashpoint of an alcohol water mixture to be higher than that of pure alcohol and the distillery will not be producing pure alcohol. They may store it for use as a cleaning solvent though.

Prior to this post, I don't note a post from jraef or anyone else commenting on the subject. Nevertheless, it is correct that the flashpoint rather than the autoignition temperature is critical to determine the material classification.

There is a fairly complex procedure in the NFPA 497 annexes for determining the characteristics of flammable mixtures. Since the process stream is unknown, it still indicates a knowledgable person needs to do the classification and it isn't going to happen in this forum.

Mixture or not, the product will still be flammable at common room temperatures; everything else is speculation.

 

[GoldDigger]

I don't think that happens for ethanol/water, although apparently it can happen for other mixtures.

Cheers, Wayne

Simple (!) thermodynamics tells us that for any two mutually soluble liquids this will happen. At what relative concentration the peak occurs varies by material.
Note that at lower temperatures the alcohol vapor will still come off in high concentration than water vapor.
Boiling is related to the relation between the combined vapor pressure of the solution and the atmospheric or other applied pressure.

 

[GoldDigger]

Prior to this post, I don't note a post from jraef or anyone else commenting on the subject. Nevertheless, it is correct that the flashpoint rather than the autoignition temperature is critical to determine the material classification.

I wrote jraef when I meant you, rbalex.
Please reread paragraph 4 of your post , #2.

I am sure it was not what you meant to write.

 

[wwhitney]

Simple (!) thermodynamics tells us that for any two mutually soluble liquids this will happen. At what relative concentration the peak occurs varies by material.

Physics is not my strong suit, but I agree that the boiling point of a mixture of two liquids will vary according to the ratio of the constituents. Apparently there is a typically an extremum at some intermediate concentration, and it may be a minimum (positive azeotrope) or maximum (negative azeotrope). Before looking this up, I hadn't realized that some mixtures of liquids can elevate boiling point.

For ethanol/water, the minimum boiling point at 1 atm is 78.2 C occurring at 95.63% ethanol concentration by weight. But at no concentration is the boiling point higher than the boiling point for water.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rbalex]

I wrote jraef when I meant you, rbalex.
Please reread paragraph 4 of your post , #2.

I am sure it was not what you meant to write.

Yeah; I acknowledge my original post was in error about that point. It was "quick and dirty" when I responded. :ashamed1: I can only say that the concept that someone knowledgable about the overall process/installation can make a correct analysis.