Florida no longer requires license?

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Effects of Proposed Changes
The bill creates an exemption from the requirement to be a licensed electrical contractor for a personwho installs low-voltage landscape lighting that contains a factory-installed electrical cord with a plugand does not require installation, wiring, or other modification to the electrical wiring of a structure.

Welcome to the forums neighbor.

Sounds reasonable.
What about it do you disagree with?

Edit: I just read your profile. I see it's going to allow unlicensed people to compete with you. I understand your concern.
From a regulatory compliance and safety concern, how much damage can one do with a cord & plug connected transformer? GFCI can't be a concern because it would not carry to the secondary side of the transformer anyway.
Are there injuries resulting from said installations?
Do other states require a license?
 
Welcome Chris J. imo you have nothing to worry about; all this bill does is allow landscape light kits a HO would buy at a big box store and install him/herself. Many of them are garbage. You'll get calls to come fix the ones that dont work; in my experience, it's almost always one of the cheap IDC connectors. You'll still get calls to install/fix an outside outlet, and calls to do the trenching/backfill.
 
Yes, it does allow anyone to compete with me, regardless of training, experience, education or credentials. I've owned my landscape lighting company for 16 years, and the great majority of that time we have operated under a mandatory ES (Electrical Specialty) license. I spent a great deal of money and time to obtain that license, not to mention the continuing education courses and fees associated with maintaining my license. In fact, I attended Mike Holt's multi-day seminar which helped me prepare for the state test, and the course was a huge benefit.
To answer your questions: Yes, there are other states that require a license to install low voltage lighting. Just because it's low voltage, that does not mean there are no risks or danger associated with it. Improper installation and/or techniques can result in melted connections, wire overloads and fire. Contrary to popular belief, there are very significant risks associated with low voltage lighting. There are NEC codes and regulations that outline specific parameters within the trade, and it is my belief that any time the NEC has a governing control of a trade, the installer of such equipment should be licensed. Just as an example: Ohms law tells us that 120 watts of incandescent light will produce 1 amp draw at 120volts... Watts divided by volts = amps. The same wattage in low voltage lamps will produce 10 amps, or 10 times that of 120v lighting. 120w/12v=10 amps. The average handy man, irrigation contractor or lawn cutter is not going to usually have that kind of knowledge, therefore putting a homeowner at risk. Having a license elevates the trade, raises the standards and keeps us pros relevant. Professional landscape lighting is not about throwing lights in arbitrarily around someone's property. It is a skill and a talent that is learned over time with experience, effort and training. Allowing "just any ol' hack" to weasel his way into this industry is an insult and a detriment to many people, including lighting contractors, end consumers and those who support and assist in the betterment of the industry such as the owner of this forum, Mike Holt.
 
JFletcher said:
Welcome Chris J. imo you have nothing to worry about; all this bill does is allow landscape light kits a HO would buy at a big box store and install him/herself. Many of them are garbage. You'll get calls to come fix the ones that dont work; in my experience, it's almost always one of the cheap IDC connectors. You'll still get calls to install/fix an outside outlet, and calls to do the trenching/backfill.
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Hey John, long time/no see! I've just been made aware of this new bill, but I disagree with what you are saying. The bill reads like this:

The bill creates an exemption from the requirement to be a licensed electrical contractor for a personwho installs low-voltage landscape lighting that contains a factory-installed electrical cord with a plugand does not require installation, wiring, or other modification to the electrical wiring of a structure.

The way I read this, if the transformer has a plug then anyone can install the lighting system as long as he/she doesn't have to modify or install anything on the primary or 120v side of the structure (meaning the outlet, or anything between the electrical panel and the outlet).

Either way, I'm not worried about it. Florida, specifically Jacksonville, has done a very poor job of monitoring and enforcing laws pertaining to low voltage lighting in the past. Therefore, every hack who ever wanted to make a few extra bucks has never been scared off just because they didn't have a license. Yes, it does create service work for us because none of these guys will ever return to their client when something goes wrong. I have inherited numerous clients just because of that; however, it's no secret that bigger profits are in the initial installation.... not repair work.

Hope you are doing well. It's good to connect again after so many years!
 
Chris J said:
Hey John, long time/no see! I've just been made aware of this new bill, but I disagree with what you are saying. The bill reads like this:

The bill creates an exemption from the requirement to be a licensed electrical contractor for a personwho installs low-voltage landscape lighting that contains a factory-installed electrical cord with a plugand does not require installation, wiring, or other modification to the electrical wiring of a structure.

The way I read this, if the transformer has a plug then anyone can install the lighting system as long as he/she doesn't have to modify or install anything on the primary or 120v side of the structure (meaning the outlet, or anything between the electrical panel and the outlet).

Either way, I'm not worried about it. Florida, specifically Jacksonville, has done a very poor job of monitoring and enforcing laws pertaining to low voltage lighting in the past. Therefore, every hack who ever wanted to make a few extra bucks has never been scared off just because they didn't have a license. Yes, it does create service work for us because none of these guys will ever return to their client when something goes wrong. I have inherited numerous clients just because of that; however, it's no secret that bigger profits are in the initial installation.... not repair work.

Hope you are doing well. It's good to connect again after so many years!
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Sorry Chris, but Im not John Fletcher, but Jack Fletcher, real name, not short for John. I am doing well tho. :)

What are the reqs there for trench depth of LE landscape lights? imo most of the labor is in that, so yeah, new installs are more profitable than repairs, the bill for which can exceed the cost of an entire, smaller low-end kit.

I agree with you on the risk of fire and melted connections; an average lighting xfmr is easily capable of pushing 30A. There was a thread in this forum a few months ago discussing that:

Looped Power Feed

Does this bill mean that FL is giving up on enforcing the NEC when it comes to LV landscape lighting?
 
JFletcher said:
...

Does this bill mean that FL is giving up on enforcing the NEC when it comes to LV landscape lighting?
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Exemption from the requirement to pull a permit and/ or exemption from the requirement for licensure is not an excuse to not comply with code.
The work still has to comply with the NEC as adopted by the state of Florida (2011 edition presently).
 
Welcome to the new world. In my 60+ years I've seen many occupations eliminated and put in the hands of hacks that once put food on the table for many. Telephone, photography, computers just off the top of my head. I can see that LV landscape lighting is ripe for some groups and manufacturers to take away from specialized contractors to boost their sales. Eliminating licensing is one way to open up the market.

-Hal
 
Thought you might be interested in this
1956aaad0d1e1f5271f8a2dda38a3836.jpg
the landscapers put black bark mulch in it . When the workers at the funeral parlor came in it was smoldering.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
I can't believe there is even a question that a homeowner can install their own plug and play electrical equipment

How about Christmas lights on a home, should that require a license?

Certainly every year it leads to fires.
 
iwire said:
I can't believe there is even a question that a homeowner can install their own plug and play electrical equipment

How about Christmas lights on a home, should that require a license?

Certainly every year it leads to fires.
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That's what homeowners insurance is for.:thumbsup:
 
iwire said:
I can't believe there is even a question that a homeowner can install their own plug and play electrical equipment

How about Christmas lights on a home, should that require a license?

Certainly every year it leads to fires.
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Well said. :thumbsup:
 
Chris J said:
Having a license elevates the trade, raises the standards and keeps us pros relevant.
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That's how it would be in a perfect world. In the real world, a license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government to make you living. Inspectors are bought off, hacks have licenses and standards are only as good as the people doing the work. Having a license in hand has very little to no affect on quality of work in my observations over the years.

Professional landscape lighting is not about throwing lights in arbitrarily around someone's property. It is a skill and a talent that is learned over time with experience, effort and training. Allowing "just any ol' hack" to weasel his way into this industry is an insult and a detriment to many people, including lighting contractors, end consumers and those who support and assist in the betterment of the industry such as the owner of this forum, Mike Holt.
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Oh please. :lol: I do lots of landscape lighting for the electrical contractor I work for, it's some of the easiest work we do. We have a helper dig the trench and throw the cable in the ground, we usually have the helper put the lights in too.
 
hbiss said:
Welcome to the new world. In my 60+ years I've seen many occupations eliminated and put in the hands of hacks that once put food on the table for many. Telephone, photography, computers just off the top of my head. I can see that LV landscape lighting is ripe for some groups and manufacturers to take away from specialized contractors to boost their sales. Eliminating licensing is one way to open up the market.

-Hal
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I agree. To add to your point, it is my understanding that the FIS (Florida Irrigation Suppliers) were heavily involved in persuading our government officials to modify the bill. Most LV lighting manufacturers use irrigation supply companies for the distribution of their products. It's obvious that these irrigation supply companies will increase sales if the hurdle of a license is removed.
 
iwire said:
I can't believe there is even a question that a homeowner can install their own plug and play electrical equipment

How about Christmas lights on a home, should that require a license?

Certainly every year it leads to fires.
Click to expand...

This isn't about what a homeowner can do. It's about hiring a contractor, and whether or not that contractor has to be licensed to do the work. Any homeowner has the right to do whatever he/she wants to do on their own property.
 
peter d said:
That's how it would be in a perfect world. In the real world, a license is nothing more than a permission slip from the government to make you living. Inspectors are bought off, hacks have licenses and standards are only as good as the people doing the work. Having a license in hand has very little to no affect on quality of work in my observations over the years.



Oh please. :lol: I do lots of landscape lighting for the electrical contractor I work for, it's some of the easiest work we do. We have a helper dig the trench and throw the cable in the ground, we usually have the helper put the lights in too.
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This is exactly the attitude that true lighting professionals find overly amusing, yet disappointing and concerning. Until recently, it was a requirement of the state of Florida to possess a license to do this type of work; therefore, there was never a question as to who was operating under state law, and who was not. Additionally, having a license shows that the contractor is serious about his trade, and he understands the credibility that comes with the effort in obtaining proper licensing........ that goes for any trade.

As far as landscape lighting being easy? Well, that would be relative to the results that one has the ability to produce. Yes, any moron can install landscape lighting...... but it takes a little more talent to do it right, and create impressive results. I can build a house, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that the house wouldn't be built better by a home builder with experience and a General Contractor's license.

Before you answer this post, I encourage you to visit the following websites of quality lighting contractors, and ask yourself if you think you could really compete with these guys. I think if you're honest with yourself, you will understand that you couldn't even begin to compete with these guys..... and that's why you'll never make the 7-figure income that some of these people make in this specialized industry.

www.gambinolighting.com

www.integralighting.com

www.artisticillumination.com

www.night-scenes.com

Have a great Memorial Day weekend!!!
 
Chris J said:
This is exactly the attitude that true lighting professionals find overly amusing, yet disappointing and concerning. Until recently, it was a requirement of the state of Florida to possess a license to do this type of work; therefore, there was never a question as to who was operating under state law, and who was not. Additionally, having a license shows that the contractor is serious about his trade, and he understands the credibility that comes with the effort in obtaining proper licensing........ that goes for any trade.

As far as landscape lighting being easy? Well, that would be relative to the results that one has the ability to produce. Yes, any moron can install landscape lighting...... but it takes a little more talent to do it right, and create impressive results. I can build a house, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that the house wouldn't be built better by a home builder with experience and a General Contractor's license.

Before you answer this post, I encourage you to visit the following websites of quality lighting contractors, and ask yourself if you think you could really compete with these guys. I think if you're honest with yourself, you will understand that you couldn't even begin to compete with these guys..... and that's why you'll never make the 7-figure income that some of these people make in this specialized industry.

www.gambinolighting.com

www.integralighting.com

www.artisticillumination.com

www.night-scenes.com

Have a great Memorial Day weekend!!!
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There is no reason that homeowners should be prevented from installing their own plug in outdoor landscape lighting. Find a new niche to work.

And for what it is worth Peter is a professional, he is licensed in an area that requires four years to obtain it.
 
Chris J said:
This is exactly the attitude that true lighting professionals find overly amusing, yet disappointing and concerning. Until recently, it was a requirement of the state of Florida to possess a license to do this type of work; therefore, there was never a question as to who was operating under state law, and who was not. Additionally, having a license shows that the contractor is serious about his trade, and he understands the credibility that comes with the effort in obtaining proper licensing........ that goes for any trade.
Click to expand...

I work for a licensed and insured contractor and I am licensed myself, as Iwire pointed out. Again, a license does not guarantee quality and safe work. You want to hang your hat on a license and that's fine. But don't pretend it has anything to do with quality work. It has everything to do with protecting your economic interests. It has limited your competition until now and that's why you don't like this Florida law change.

As far as landscape lighting being easy? Well, that would be relative to the results that one has the ability to produce. Yes, any moron can install landscape lighting...... but it takes a little more talent to do it right, and create impressive results. I can build a house, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that the house wouldn't be built better by a home builder with experience and a General Contractor's license.
Click to expand...

It's not building a power plant or high rise building. It's landscape lighting. :lol: If it has a transformer that plugs into the wall as many landscape systems do, there is no requirement for a license to install it in my area nor should there be.

Before you answer this post, I encourage you to visit the following websites of quality lighting contractors, and ask yourself if you think you could really compete with these guys. I think if you're honest with yourself, you will understand that you couldn't even begin to compete with these guys..... and that's why you'll never make the 7-figure income that some of these people make in this specialized industry.
Click to expand...

We don't have these types of contractors in my area for the most part so it's irrelevant. Electrical contractors do everything electrical where I live. Some might specialize in landscape lighting but they are few and far between, it's not a big industry here. As for competing with them - any contractor would have trouble competing with a specialty contractor so what's your point?
 
Chris J said:
This isn't about what a homeowner can do. It's about hiring a contractor, and whether or not that contractor has to be licensed to do the work. Any homeowner has the right to do whatever he/she wants to do on their own property.
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Not here. If it's multi family property then, the homeowner can't do any electrical work on they're property. Single family, it's acceptable.
 
do they actually make you pull a LV permit in Jacksonville? We got two permits in J-ville last week for commercial jobs and I don't even remember seeing a LV section on it.

I can think of maybe 2-3 times in the last several years we had to pull a LV permit in Florida. I want to say it was south FL also?


Anyway, I don't think the new law is going to hurt anyone.
 
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