Net Zero House

[GerryB]

Any one ever do one? I didn't even know what it was when one of my contractors said he was going to bid this 3000 sq/ft house. He said it was hard to bid because it was a net zero house, off the grid. So is that different then just having solar panels?I would think you would still need a regular service. This is the northeast and we can get plenty of cloudy days.

 

[kwired]

It is not net zero if it is off the grid.

Pretty sure net zero means you supply as much or even more back to the grid they you take from it, or something very close to that.

Off the grid can have some similarities I suppose but you have no grid to rely on when there is no wind or sun or the on site storage is consumed or demand is higher then on site storage/production.

 

[dmxtothemax]

OH great !
just what we need
More rules and regulations to remember !

:?

 

[GerryB]

It is not net zero if it is off the grid.

Pretty sure net zero means you supply as much or even more back to the grid they you take from it, or something very close to that.

Off the grid can have some similarities I suppose but you have no grid to rely on when there is no wind or sun or the on site storage is consumed or demand is higher then on site storage/production.

Yes, that is what it is, I just watched a video. They use foam insulation, triple pane windows, the most energy efficient appliances, etc. One video said you save $300.00 a month average in energy bills. So if you save $3600 for 25 years (life of the mortgage?) that's $90,000.00. I wonder how much more it cost to build the house?

 

[kwired]

Yes, that is what it is, I just watched a video. They use foam insulation, triple pane windows, the most energy efficient appliances, etc. One video said you save $300.00 a month average in energy bills. So if you save $3600 for 25 years (life of the mortgage?) that's $90,000.00. I wonder how much more it cost to build the house?

I would be looking into what the payback is in say 10 years more so then 25. First you really don't know how long you might live there, even if you wish to stay longer health issues, disibility, death, marriage, divorce, loss of a job, finding a new job, all can change the plan whether it be you or someone else.

Then you also have to assume some items will need maintenance or even replacement after 10 years, others maybe 15 or even 20 years, and factor in some cost for that. Even the triple pane windows or other energy efficient building components may need repairs or replacement after some time.

Now if you do save $300 a month that does add up fast as you mentioned. You may even pay your mortgage off sooner if you apply some of that savings toward that, which may be one of the best investments one may possibly make A little extra principal payment on a regular basis makes a big difference on interest charged by the time the loan is paid in full.

 

[ggunn]

Any one ever do one? I didn't even know what it was when one of my contractors said he was going to bid this 3000 sq/ft house. He said it was hard to bid because it was a net zero house, off the grid. So is that different then just having solar panels?I would think you would still need a regular service. This is the northeast and we can get plenty of cloudy days.

Net zero and off grid are two different things. Net zero only requires that the home generate as much energy it uses over time. Off grid has the same net requirement, of course, but it obviously cannot pull energy from the grid at any time. The difference, in a word, is batteries, and batteries are very expensive. A net zero house has a payback but an off grid house typically does not.

 

[petersonra]

Yes, that is what it is, I just watched a video. They use foam insulation, triple pane windows, the most energy efficient appliances, etc. One video said you save $300.00 a month average in energy bills. So if you save $3600 for 25 years (life of the mortgage?) that's $90,000.00. I wonder how much more it cost to build the house?

my gas and electric combined are rarely more than $100 a month. how would I go about saving $300 a month. Would need to be a huge house with an enormous energy appetite.

 

[GoldDigger]

my gas and electric combined are rarely more than $100 a month. how would I go about saving $300 a month. Would need to be a huge house with an enormous energy appetite.

If you had the same size house but with resistance air and water heating you would probably have a bill closer to $300. It depends on where you are starting.

Part of going zero energy from there would be to switch to a heat pump.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If you had the same size house but with resistance air and water heating you would probably have a bill closer to $300. It depends on where you are starting.

Part of going zero energy from there would be to switch to a heat pump.

Here in Southern CA it's very common to see a $300-$500 a month electric bill. That's why we do so much solar here.

 

[kwired]

my gas and electric combined are rarely more than $100 a month. how would I go about saving $300 a month. Would need to be a huge house with an enormous energy appetite.

How many people live in your home and what is their energy usage like? Laundry and bath/showers use a lot of energy in some cases, especially if you have teenagers/college age kids still around.

 

[iwire]

Here in Southern CA it's very common to see a $300-$500 a month electric bill. That's why we do so much solar here.

With the ACs on I am looking at about $200-$250 month electric depending on how hot the month was.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Any one ever do one? I didn't even know what it was when one of my contractors said he was going to bid this 3000 sq/ft house. He said it was hard to bid because it was a net zero house, off the grid. So is that different then just having solar panels?I would think you would still need a regular service. This is the northeast and we can get plenty of cloudy days.

here's a link to the kool aid.

scroll thru it, and you will see this:

All new residential construction in California will be zeronet energy or equivalent to zero net energy by 2020
All new commercial construction in California will be zeronet energy or equivalent to zero net energy by 2030

this means.... you generate as much as you use.
this isn't just lighting, this is total building load.

http://www.green-technology.org/gcsummit/images/CALGreen-Title-24.pdf

in LA now, you need a calGreen cert before you get building final.
new housing in 2019 will have to be net zero electric.

 

[ggunn]

here's a link to the kool aid.

scroll thru it, and you will see this:

All new residential construction in California will be zeronet energy or equivalent to zero net energy by 2020
All new commercial construction in California will be zeronet energy or equivalent to zero net energy by 2030

this means.... you generate as much as you use.
this isn't just lighting, this is total building load.

http://www.green-technology.org/gcsummit/images/CALGreen-Title-24.pdf

in LA now, you need a calGreen cert before you get building final.
new housing in 2019 will have to be net zero electric.

The AHJ is mandating PV or some other power generation? If so it's solar gold rush time!

 

[cowboyjwc]

The AHJ is mandating PV or some other power generation? If so it's solar gold rush time!

Not the AHJ, but the state, as of now all new houses have to have a minimum 200 amp service with at least one spot for a two pole solar breaker and a conduit into the attic so that the house is solar ready. In addition there is to be a one inch conduit going into a box for the addition of a electric car charger. Commercial buildings have to have x number of feet available on the roof for the addition of solar and buildings over a certain square footage must have sky lights installed. Then you get into the electrical part which get's really complicated.

 

[K8MHZ]

The AHJ is mandating PV or some other power generation? If so it's solar gold rush time!

Not necessarily.

The requirement is zero net energy or equivalent.

Possible concepts for “equivalent” -- purchase of renewable energy credits (RECs)

http://www.green-technology.org/gcsummit/images/CALGreen-Title-24.pdf

 

[GoldDigger]

Not necessarily.

The requirement is zero net energy or equivalent.

http://www.green-technology.org/gcsummit/images/CALGreen-Title-24.pdf

CA does not currently have SRECs, so it may involve both other types of RECs and purchase from other states (boosting the market there.)

 

[ggunn]

Not necessarily.

The requirement is zero net energy or equivalent.

How would a house show zero net energy usage without generating energy for its own use? What else is equivalent to zero?

 

[kwired]

How would a house show zero net energy usage without generating energy for its own use? What else is equivalent to zero?

Not paying your electric bill and having your service disconnected

 

[Fulthrotl]

How would a house show zero net energy usage without generating energy for its own use? What else is equivalent to zero?

the chances of this working.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Then you get into the electrical part which get's really complicated.

yup. i got a call from a contractor today, the inspector
turned him down. no certification, and he didn't have daylighting
controls in the primary area.
there was *one* two tube T-8 fixture in the primary zone.
66 watts. daylighting controls not needed under 120 watts
connected load for downlighting.

he was ready to go spend $2k for nLight controls, to dim one fixture.
not necessary. will write magic letter with certification, and sprinkle
electron dust over the time clock.


the learning curve on this stuff is painful. another guy just got his
first demand for certification docs. then we find out he has a 13,000
sq ft floor of a building, done in wattstopper. stand alone room controls.

oops. he needs to add a backbone interlinking all those individual controllers, for demand response..... $20,000 later......

with all the frothy BS i spew on here, the one really important
piece of info i can offer to folks contracting in the golden state,
is not to get creative with lighting packages. don't substitute
luminares or controls without engineering approval. "value engineering"
and design builds in commercial, without a very clear understanding
of the requirements, and a very clear path to certification at the end of
the job is really playing with the third rail of contracting here today.