spark master
Senior Member
- Location
- cyberspace
Is there, (should there) a swimming pool section? With the amount of information now available from this site... it's a very valuable resource.
Pool Section
- Thread starter spark master
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
There is not a pool section and IMO that is not a bad idea but some feel that we have too many sections already. It would only help organize things better
spark master
Senior Member
- Location
- cyberspace
After watching the MH video's.... I'd like to remove my 120volt lights, and change them all to low voltage. Totally isolated from the grid. Is there is a good read on it? I don't get involved in pool work at all, and this would be all new to me. I usually deal with light commercial.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I am one of those ... I liked it much better way back when there was only one forum.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I am surprised about this Don. I assume you have your computer files organized where you can find them. If I want to read questions about pools then you just need to go to that forum. On my computer I have a folder with all the pool files in it-- no different IMO. The search feature has a lot to be desired so I avoid using it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
What do you mean by totally isolated from the grid?
One of the most important things to know about swimming pools is the importance of equipotential bonding. Leave nothing conductive within the pool or within reach of users unbonded.
The intent of this bonding is not to earth things, it is to bring everything within the user's reach to same potential so the user will not be subject to any voltage. Say there is a small voltage drop on the service neutral - your equipment grounding conductors are all bonded to that service neutral and will all see that voltage drop on the service neutral but as a rise above earth potential. So if you have an isolated conductive light shell it will be at earth potential but the rest of your equipotential system is at the service neutral voltage, users that touch or approach the light shell will get shocked even though it is isolated from the grid, because true ground potential is lower then the rest of the pool equipment.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I only view the forum by having it show me the new posts....That makes it work like a single forum for me.
The only time I look at a forum title is the rare case where I am originating a thread.
It is not very common for me to go back and read an old thread or even search for something in an old thread.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Motors/vfd's also get enough questions to warrant a sub-forum too...
Whats weird is to look at an old MH page from the early 2000's- they seem so plain, nothing fancy, and even shows when guys entered the trade.
spark master
Senior Member
- Location
- cyberspace
Let's say my house / pool equipment is 300' from the POT. The service neutral will be 1 or 2 volts above ground. I understand that. But now I'm reading to change all the pool lights to low voltage, with an isolation transformer. This is where I get lost.... with the theory.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
If you bring an equipment grounding conductor to the pool lights, regardless of the operationg voltage and even if you never turn the power to the lights on, you just brought that 1 or 2 volts potential to ground to your pool area. If everything conductive in the pool area isn't bonded to bring it all to same potential you will have voltage present between any bonded and non bonded objects. Bond everything but forget to bond a metal structure for a diving board and you now have that 1 or 2 volts between everything bonded and that diving board structure that is at earth potential.
The equipotential bonding is not about grounding it is about keeping everything bonded at same potential. One could have the entire pool sitting there at several hundred volts above "ground" but everything within reach of pool users is at same potential and there is no shock hazard to the users.
Choosing to change your lights to low voltage does likely lessen potential hazards some but doesn't change equipotential bonding rules at all is the point I am trying to get across. Don't change what you have for the wrong reasons.
spark master
Senior Member
- Location
- cyberspace
ok, then why run a ground wire to any light niche? Why not let it sit at earth voltage, rather than introducing neutral voltage ?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Because any one object that is connected to an EGC will introduce a hazard possibly to the entire pool. Number one item is a pump. This pump can possibly raise the potential of the entire body of water above earth potential.
Without going into specific rules in general anything line voltage will need an equipment grounding conductor just because it needs that to clear ground faults. The one item that is common in almost all pools is the pump. Because of that everything that possibly can be at another potential whether it has electric power or not needs bonded together to prevent potential differences.
This is why you see electrocutions at marinas and docks - that boat lift even if on a GFCI has neutral to ground voltage present between it and the water. Put same boat lift in a properly bonded swimming pool and that voltage is still there but not between the pool and the lift, it is between the pool and remote earth. It is very difficult to bond a lake compared to a pool.
spark master
Senior Member
- Location
- cyberspace
I'm working on a house, not the pool equipment. But I looked at the pool equipment, and I saw the pump is not bonded. The lug is not connected to anything.
Where does the equip-bond normally come back to? Is there a designated location?
Where does the equip-bond normally come back to? Is there a designated location?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
All the equipotential bonding does is circle the pool, connect rebar etc and terminate at the pool motor. It is connected to the ground or equipment grounding conductor indirectly thru the motor housing. If the pump is a double insulated pump then you need to connect to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is the section I mentioned above
mgookin
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Myers, FL
It's swimming pool season.
In the past 60 days 90% of the country fired up their pools for the first time this year and in many areas the ground thawed and they can now dig a pool. Some people went out and bought an above ground pool.
Give it a few short months and you won't hear much about pools again until next spring. Florida excepted.
In the past 60 days 90% of the country fired up their pools for the first time this year and in many areas the ground thawed and they can now dig a pool. Some people went out and bought an above ground pool.
Give it a few short months and you won't hear much about pools again until next spring. Florida excepted.
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