Q on branch wiring....and bid winning strategy.....

[dionysius]

In industrial applications it is a large part of a competitive bid as to whether metal conduit, plastic conduit, NM sheathed cable , MC, Cable Tray, or other is selected.

If one were to take a birds eye view of the NEC codes how would one list the heavy hitters that stay lowest cost but are compliant??

This is frequently a driver in who wins the job.

Any help here is welcomed from you very experienced folks.

In certain parts of the country there are traditional preferences that may not be the most rational but you ignore at your peril.

 

[user 100]

In industrial applications it is a large part of a competitive bid as to whether metal conduit, plastic conduit, NM sheathed cable , MC, Cable Tray, or other is selected.

If one were to take a birds eye view of the NEC codes how would one list the heavy hitters that stay lowest cost but are compliant??

This is frequently a driver in who wins the job.

In certain parts of the country there are traditional preferences that may not be the most rational but you ignore at your peril.

I don't do commercial/industrial, but will say this- first you obviously must determine what is permitted where the work will be performed by getting w/ the ahj- what they allow could pare/expand the options you have and determines costs to a large degree- its why many EC's complain about working in some areas, and why many are happy when restrictions are relaxed/exceptions are made- material is expensive.

IOWs, when you speak of traditional preferences remember in part that often in some places guys just can't use certain materials no matter what the NEC says.

 

[iwire]

In industrial applications it is a large part of a competitive bid as to whether metal conduit, plastic conduit, NM sheathed cable , MC, Cable Tray, or other is selected.

In my limited experience with industrial it is much less about what the code will allow and much more about what the plant or facility will allow.

We have one industrial customer that only allows Square D equipment, RMC, Form 7 conduit bodies and on and on.

 

[jumper]

In my limited experience with industrial it is much less about what the code will allow and much more about what the plant or facility will allow.

We have one industrial customer that only allows Square D equipment, RMC, Form 7 conduit bodies and on and on.

+1:thumbsup:

 

[gadfly56]

In my limited experience with industrial it is much less about what the code will allow and much more about what the plant or facility will allow.

We have one industrial customer that only allows Square D equipment, RMC, Form 7 conduit bodies and on and on.

Absolutely. Often the customer spec is more restrictive than the code.

 

[petersonra]

Absolutely. Often the customer spec is more restrictive than the code.

That's the way I see it too. Also our customers have definite preferences for equipment manufacturers such as Allen Bradley for programmable controllers and MCCS. However for some things they just don't care like terminal blocks and enclosures. Oftentimes they will accept any major brand of molded case circuit breaker. Not many care much what brand of motor starters are used but often have preferences for both brand and model of variable frequency drives. Some have definite preferences for the type of I/O used. If we want their business we give them what they want. Sometimes people don't care and they usually get whatever is most cost effective for that particular application.

 

[mgookin]

When you change that engineer's design in your eyes it's value engineering.
When there's a claim it's no longer viewed as value engineering; you cheated and you got caught.

 

[gadfly56]

When you change that engineer's design in your eyes it's value engineering.
When there's a claim it's no longer viewed as value engineering; you cheated and you got caught.

It isn't clear that the OP is trying to shave the spec. I see it as a more general question. If an MC installation is cost factor 1.0, what's EMT vs. RMC vs. cable tray? We all kind of stepped over that question to answer one he didn't ask. Sometimes you get a commercial request for quote (RFQ) that's very light or non-existent on spec and/or drawings. As long as you qualify your bid response with regard to what you're supplying there's nothing wrong going as cheap as is code-compliantly possible.

 

[mgookin]

It isn't clear that the OP is trying to shave the spec. I see it as a more general question. If an MC installation is cost factor 1.0, what's EMT vs. RMC vs. cable tray? We all kind of stepped over that question to answer one he didn't ask. Sometimes you get a commercial request for quote (RFQ) that's very light or non-existent on spec and/or drawings. As long as you qualify your bid response with regard to what you're supplying there's nothing wrong going as cheap as is code-compliantly possible.

That's fair.
I read the OP and the previous answers and thought he was asking how he can change the specs to underbid others and get the job.
It now looks like he's asking where's the lion's share of savings for the customer in design.
The money is in the time & materials. Maybe spending a little more on one lets you shave off lots more on the other.
As to where in the job that would come from, that's a job by job answer as others have said.
I know Al vs. Cu is something that recently showed some considerable differential on long runs of conductors.

 

[dionysius]

In industrial applications it is a large part of a competitive bid as to whether metal conduit, plastic conduit, NM sheathed cable , MC, Cable Tray, or other is selected.

If one were to take a birds eye view of the NEC codes how would one list the heavy hitters that stay lowest cost but are compliant??

This is frequently a driver in who wins the job.

Any help here is welcomed from you very experienced folks.

In certain parts of the country there are traditional preferences that may not be the most rational but you ignore at your peril.

As OP I am simply asking how to bring in the lowest bid. I am not trying to change the specs.

 

[gadfly56]

As OP I am simply asking how to bring in the lowest bid. I am not trying to change the specs.

Although some people don't care for it, you may want to investigate RS Means. They make their coin by providing estimating data for various construction trades on a regional basis. More recently they've gotten into the estimating software business. You can do a free trial subscription for 30 days I believe. Using their tools, you could create various scenarios from simple to complex and generate your own table of relative values. You can't do very complicated and I think the reports feature is crippled in the trail version. Even if some people think their rates are off, at least you can do relative comparisons.

 

[dionysius]

Although some people don't care for it, you may want to investigate RS Means. They make their coin by providing estimating data for various construction trades on a regional basis. More recently they've gotten into the estimating software business. You can do a free trial subscription for 30 days I believe. Using their tools, you could create various scenarios from simple to complex and generate your own table of relative values. You can't do very complicated and I think the reports feature is crippled in the trail version. Even if some people think their rates are off, at least you can do relative comparisons.

I am looking at this RS Means and it is really something. Thank you for this lead.