Restoration Hardware chandelier: 19th C. Rococo Iron & Crystal.....(250 lb!)

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jjhoward

jjhoward

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Location
Northern NJ
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Owner TJ Electric
I am preparing a bid to install this large ornate chandelier for a customer. From the assy instructions it looks like > 600 crystal pieces. AND the assembly instructions show shrink tubing to cover splices in the base and the top of this chandelier. Anybody every assemble something like this?? I have done many a chandelier, never have I spliced wires together and cover splices with shrink tubing. Any experience with this type of light?? We are thinking to do as much assembly as possible on the ground & then raise it up to install the crystals. I suggested a chandelier lift for the HO but his initial response was no. I am hoping that when we open this thing the 8 arms will be attached & wired. I guess if we have to splice some wires together that will be nothing compared to 600 crystals!! Thank you for you input.
 
jjhoward said:
From the assy instructions it looks like > 600 crystal pieces.

I suggested a chandelier lift for the HO but his initial response was no.
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I don’t guess he is thinking past the initial install, huh...
cleaning, bulb changes, etc.
that many crystals gather a lot of dust.
 
The general public sometimes need education in things such as this. If it was my chandelier and this large, complex and heavy i would absolutely use a chandelier lift to avoid a lot of pain down the road. But sometimes they don't want to hear it. In that case I would likely tell them to find someone else.
 
Dennis, I hear you! Without the crystals I think it is 150 lbs. We have scaffolding to work from, much much better than a ladder.But I might pass on this if he doesn't go the lift. We have done smaller chandeliers with a lift & I have 2 women from my office come and hang all the crystals. (AKA the cystal _itches)
 
This is an almost carbon copy of the very first post I ever wrote on this forum:

If you haven't done this already, retain the services of a structural engineer in order to ensure the attachment to the structure is properly designed. 250# is more than enough to squash someone flat if it lets go.

Once you have a solid plan from an engineer, find someone who knows rigging, and how to rig this right. Don't take this the wrong way, but most electricians are terrible riggers. Rigging this much weight, and understanding the resultant forces placed on the structure is a specialty. Unistrut and All-thread ain't gonna cut it here.

I see you're in N. NJ, based on your forum profile. I'm not too far south of you. PM me if you need help; I have almost 20 years experience working in the Entertainment industry, flying people and things overhead.


SceneryDriver
 
You know different arch's than I do; they can be very well versed in structural matters, it's part of their training (and they're licensed). Most residential arch's know about this stuff since most houses don't have an SE reviewing the plans.

Anyway, get someone to look at the installation.
 
When we did a major remodel (keeping 2 walls and the slab) we used a designer. He worked with us to get exactly the layout and features we wanted, then drew up the plans, did the structural calculations and then had them signed off by an architect since he was unlicensed.
The most interesting single point was one corner of an upstairs bathroom where two walls and a 2 ceiling sections came together with no right angles anywhere. The framing detail stated "to be determined by carpenter". It worked.
 
zbang said:
You know different arch's than I do; they can be very well versed in structural matters, it's part of their training (and they're licensed). Most residential arch's know about this stuff since most houses don't have an SE reviewing the plans.

Anyway, get someone to look at the installation.
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Good point. I was painting with too broad a brush. In my world, the architect and SE are almost always two different people, and often two different companies. Residential sounds like it's different, with architects doing (and licensed to do) the SE work.

SceneryDriver
 
SceneryDriver said:
Good point. I was painting with too broad a brush. In my world, the architect and SE are almost always two different people, and often two different companies. Residential sounds like it's different, with architects doing (and licensed to do) the SE work.

SceneryDriver
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Why should residential be any different?? Only thing I can think of is if this thing falls it's only going to squash him, his wife and kids. In a public building or place of assembly, the people are gonna sue big time.

So which one would you want engineering your fixture install?

And SceneryDriver is absolutely right in insisting that this be installed by a certified rigger after the proper structural engineering and support work has been done.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Why should residential be any different??
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Scale. IME houses do not have SE-stamped drawings; at lease I haven't seen any (which doesn't mean they aren't out there). OTOH, the architect does specify the beams, columns, roof trusses, etc. When I helped a partner through arch school, you'd better believe they had structural training; granted that was 30 years ago. Maybe your area is different.

And riggers don't to structural engineering, either, they implement what the A/E has spec'd.

In the end, get someone with a license to design things (and put their name/stamp on it). Whether you need a certified rigger to install the extra bracing the A/E specs is another discussion (I'd say, probably not if they follow the drawings/spec), and whether or not you need a certified rigger to install the winch and/or hang the chandelier is yet a third.
 
Chandelier lift ... never heard of such a thing before. But I was able to look it up.
[1] You learn something new every day.
[2] A few people have a radically different lifestyle than I have. I can reach all the light fixtures in my house.
(then again, I'm 6'4" and my 2-bedroom bungalow was built in 1927)

A sealed drawing from an expert is never a bad idea, but I don't think one's required here. But it should be reviewed by someone who reads the instructions and understands loads & span tables, at least. And every detail should be specified, right down to the fasteners -- don't want to hang heavy loads from drywall screws, for example.
(full disclosure #1: I am a PE.)
(full disclosure #2: Your AHJ may disagree. Or not, depending on the quality of work presented by a non-expert.)

Education varies from state to state and school to school. One of my classmates wanted to do a dual degree in architecture and structural engineering. The administration told him he could do that, but it would be an eight-year program because the two programs have little or nothing in common.
(the same administration who fancied an engineering degree to be a four-year program)
 
Question for those who know chandelier lifts:

Are the chandeliers unplugged as they're lowered? Or is there an extension cord along side the lift cable?

I'd think there'd have to be the extension cord, otherwise someone would still have to climb up and plug it back in!
 
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