Are there any available spaces in this Panelboard?

[designer82]

I am trying to determine if the spaces above and below the existing breakers in this panelboard are usable spaces that can accept additional similar breakers to the existing ones.

Are you able to tell from looking at the pictures (below) of the panelboard?

Left Lower Section

Left-Lower-Section

Image Left-Lower-Section hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Left Upper Section

Left-Upper-Section

Image Left-Upper-Section hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Right Lower Section

Right-Lower-Section

Image Right-Lower-Section hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Right Upper Section

Right-Upper-Section

Image Right-Upper-Section hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

I appreciate your help on this.

 

[texie]

Those are fusible switches, not breakers. As for space, gonna take some research but looks doubtful to me.

 

[tom baker]

Using appropiate PPE, remove covers and trim, you will be able to tell from the bussing if addition units can be installed.
Maufacturers information would be helpful

 

[ptonsparky]

I hope that transformer isn't as close as it looks.

 

[masterinbama]

Use the tap rules and add a fusible disconnect.

But judging by the transformer clearance, you don't have room.

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[hillbilly1]

Top panel above the last switch, maybe, but above that, most likely no. Changing out the existing switches to a larger amp frame would probably require a buss kit.

 

[roger]

I agree with masterinbama. Even if a breaker could be added the hardware kit could cost more than the breaker.

Roger

 

[designer82]

Use the tap rules and add a fusible disconnect.

But judging by the transformer clearance, you don't have room.

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If have to go this route, how do you make the tap. What section of the panelboard do they tap the bus and how is it done? Would appreciate if you can elaborate on this a bit.

thanks

 

[petersonra]

It's hard to know for sure, but one option might be to take out an existing switch or breaker and replace it with one that has a higher rating and feed a couple of fused disconnects downstream with it.

 

[masterinbama]

If have to go this route, how do you make the tap. What section of the panelboard do they tap the bus and how is it done? Would appreciate if you can elaborate on this a bit.

thanks

Lugs bolted to the busses to a fused disconnect.

I always draw up a plan and run it by the AHJ first.

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[ptonsparky]

Is there a chance the existing fused disconnect is capable of handling both chillers?

If so max out the fusing, wires and feed A couple other appropriately sized disconnects or cbs using taps.

 

[tom baker]

If have to go this route, how do you make the tap. What section of the panelboard do they tap the bus and how is it done? Would appreciate if you can elaborate on this a bit.

thanks

Without seeing the inside of the gear, can't give any more information. Tap rules are in section 240.21 B for feeders, most likely you will want to use 10 ft feeder taps. You do not seem to be experienced in this, so get an experienced electrical contractor to assist.
And as pointed out the transformer is in the working space. Some contractors will not do the installation due to that serious violation.

 

[electrofelon]

If have to go this route, how do you make the tap. What section of the panelboard do they tap the bus and how is it done? Would appreciate if you can elaborate on this a bit.

thanks

To elaborate on what the other have said:

There are different "levels" of ease and code compliance you can run into with this. On one end of the spectrum is the case where there are already spare lugs installed. Could be not all ports were utilized or there are feed thru lugs that were never used. Next level up is adding or changing lugs to get what you need. This could be changing to a stacking type lug that has more Ports, or bolting on new lugs to existing holes. Some will say any lugs you add/change must be approved by the manufacturer (not just the lug itself but the location as well). Personally I am very libertarian about my right to change/add lugs to equipment, but your AHJ could feel differently. Then you get into drilling holes in bus bars which is often seen as a no no. I believe there are some clamp type kits available, but again the AHJ may require those to be specifically made for that piece of equipment. Some of the above options may require a UL field evaluation to be approved by the AHJ.

 

[Russs57]

Get all the data off the nameplate and contact GE.

 

[Charged]

If have to go this route, how do you make the tap. What section of the panelboard do they tap the bus and how is it done? Would appreciate if you can elaborate on this a bit.

thanks

IMO I would first consult the manufacturer, see if they can provide a recommendation and a method that won’t void the UL listing. If not, and there is no extra lugs or factory places to tap without drilling it , you may have to get the method approved by a special UL inspection. I was in a situation where we decided to drill the bus bars and used the tap rules to place a disconnect adjacent to the switchboard. The inspector required a letter from UL, fortunately it passed, note there is a cost associated with UL inspection as well.
It will probably be good to get the inspectors take on it before getting too far.

 

[ptonsparky]

You may be able to update that panel board entirely and keep the can, if it weren’t for the transformer.

 

[petersonra]

It seems to me that I ran across some bus bar lugs that are UL listed and do not require drilling into the bus bars. They just kind of clamp on to the bus bars. I don't see why you couldn't use something like that as long as you didn't overload the bus bars that you clamped onto.

 

[hillbilly1]

It seems to me that I ran across some bus bar lugs that are UL listed and do not require drilling into the bus bars. They just kind of clamp on to the bus bars. I don't see why you couldn't use something like that as long as you didn't overload the bus bars that you clamped onto.

I know with Square D they have those, I added Kirk key systems to several Costco stores, and Square D sent lugs and plates that clamped by a bolt between the parallel buss bars.

 

[augie47]

I agree with Post 14 & 15. Get all your nameplate info and contact the manufacture. They likely will have a record of what bussing is installed to allow and additional disconnect or if bussing can be added,.

 

[RichB]

Agree with posts 14, 15 and 19--Short answer--Just by looking--there might be a spot on the lower right but without being there--and by roughly looking at size--nope doesn't seem feasible