Craziness of the Business

[jmellc]

I know the EC business will not die because the world cannot manage today without it. But I have serious concerns

I now work in facility maintenance & do only a few side jobs here & there. I have long loved electrical work but I am glad to be out of construction & service. The headaches never end.

I worked several jobs the last few years where we had to fill out safety papers each morning & take them to the GC. Same jobs often had rules about using platform ladders instead of standard. 1 GC had the “belt buckle rule”. If your belt buckle goes above the top of the ladder, you get a taller ladder. Then you might have to poke it through ceiling grids. So what if you bend a few? Permits were often required for ladders.

The last construction job I worked was an insane asylum. Major pharmaceutical plant. Meet each morning at 7:00. Each crew leader fills out papers for their assigned job. Each crew member reads & signs. Project manager takes papers to GC and/or customer’s safety officers. Papers reviewed & signed. He returns & we go to our sites. Then someone has to approve beginning work at each site. May be 8:30 or later when we start work. Scaffolds preferred over ladders so we had to build them where we could. 2 or more trades in a room competing for space. If customer’s reps came into an area to talk, we had to stop work, to not disturb them.

I’ll skip other details but we then go to afternoon meeting & get scolded for being lazy & sloppy. Then have a general safety meeting every Tuesday morning and get reminded that we can’t start work until our site is approved.

Add in the other issues we all discuss here. I think a lot of good people will be leaving the business and make it that much harder for those who remain.

Of course no business is trouble free but electrical work seems to have more than should be necessary IMHO.

 

[hbiss]

How many of us work at locations like that?

-Hal

 

[romex jockey]

We've had 'required' safety meetings on larger jobsites, which were not much more than signing in & an hour bs session....~RJ~

 

[jmellc]

We've had 'required' safety meetings on larger jobsites, which were not much more than signing in & an hour bs session....~RJ~

These meetings were dog & pony shows with several speakers, an exercise leader, threats to pull our badges for any infraction, etc.

Their one strict rule that made sense was restrictions on food & drink in many areas. As an FDA controlled facility, they had to keep all buildings very clean.

The 1 consistent good thing on that project was my coworkers. Nearly all were fine people & a good many were younger guys in their 20’s. That was impressive.

 

[jmellc]

How many of us work at locations like that?

-Hal

Hopefully not many.

 

[JGinIndy]

When I retired 2 years ago from Washington DC the GC’s had their labor crews out doing pre work morning exercise / stretching just like in that movie “Gung Ho” Granted it did look a bit odd but never heard anyone complaining as they were getting paid anyway.

 

[kwired]

I know the EC business will not die because the world cannot manage today without it. But I have serious concerns

I now work in facility maintenance & do only a few side jobs here & there. I have long loved electrical work but I am glad to be out of construction & service. The headaches never end.

I worked several jobs the last few years where we had to fill out safety papers each morning & take them to the GC. Same jobs often had rules about using platform ladders instead of standard. 1 GC had the “belt buckle rule”. If your belt buckle goes above the top of the ladder, you get a taller ladder. Then you might have to poke it through ceiling grids. So what if you bend a few? Permits were often required for ladders.

The last construction job I worked was an insane asylum. Major pharmaceutical plant. Meet each morning at 7:00. Each crew leader fills out papers for their assigned job. Each crew member reads & signs. Project manager takes papers to GC and/or customer’s safety officers. Papers reviewed & signed. He returns & we go to our sites. Then someone has to approve beginning work at each site. May be 8:30 or later when we start work. Scaffolds preferred over ladders so we had to build them where we could. 2 or more trades in a room competing for space. If customer’s reps came into an area to talk, we had to stop work, to not disturb them.

I’ll skip other details but we then go to afternoon meeting & get scolded for being lazy & sloppy. Then have a general safety meeting every Tuesday morning and get reminded that we can’t start work until our site is approved.

Add in the other issues we all discuss here. I think a lot of good people will be leaving the business and make it that much harder for those who remain.

Of course no business is trouble free but electrical work seems to have more than should be necessary IMHO.

The larger the facility you work in the more likely I can see you having to deal with some these same safety issues and paperwork on a regular basis. You don't have a different GC running the show every time you move on to another project being the biggest difference. You may have contactors to interact with if your facility frequently has new projects done by outsiders though.

 

[ptonsparky]

One place we did work for professed safety. Had to sign in out, vests, etc. One of the higher up employees asked me about doing voltage checks etc. It was obvious they were not trained in any way. I told them they really should not be doing it. Heard later the CEO told them, 'Of course the EC said that. he wants the work.' BS, I didn't want them hurt.

 

[romex jockey]

These meetings were dog & pony shows with several speakers, an exercise leader, threats to pull our badges for any infraction, etc.

Their one strict rule that made sense was restrictions on food & drink in many areas. As an FDA controlled facility, they had to keep all buildings very clean.

The 1 consistent good thing on that project was my coworkers. Nearly all were fine people & a good many were younger guys in their 20’s. That was impressive.

Then there was the 10hr, and the 30hr courses.......~RJ~

 

[kwired]

These meetings were dog & pony shows with several speakers, an exercise leader, threats to pull our badges for any infraction, etc.

Their one strict rule that made sense was restrictions on food & drink in many areas. As an FDA controlled facility, they had to keep all buildings very clean.

The 1 consistent good thing on that project was my coworkers. Nearly all were fine people & a good many were younger guys in their 20’s. That was impressive.

Private third party certification companies are usually more restrictive on things you never give much thought about than FDA or USDA is in food product manufacturing places. If you want to sell to certain buyers for your product you often need to comply with those third party certifications, whereas USDA or FDA compliance is usually easier to achieve, at least that is my experience in dairy related food industry.

 

[hillbilly1]

Then there was the 10hr, and the 30hr courses.......~RJ~

Watching paint dry is more fun! LOL!

 

[hillbilly1]

When I retired 2 years ago from Washington DC the GC’s had their labor crews out doing pre work morning exercise / stretching just like in that movie “Gung Ho” Granted it did look a bit odd but never heard anyone complaining as they were getting paid anyway.

We call it the “WalMart shuffle”. Don’t know if they still do it, but they would have their meeting and do their exercise before the store would open.

 

[Coppersmith]

What you are seeing are businesses trying to avoid being sued because the workers and contractors are lazy and will work unsafe if you allow them to. Ladders are dangerous when used normally and according to the rules printed on them. You can easily fall off and die when you hit bottom. I knew two j-man who did just that. Add to that the people who violate those rules and stand on the top two steps. No wonder larger jobs have to have meetings to tell people not to do stupid things. Being sued is expensive and the more people on the job, the greater the chance that injuries will occur.

Maybe if there were video cameras recording all the workers and the courts ruled that if you do something stupid and die, your estate can't sue your employer or the place you were working, there would be fewer meetings. Do you think that would be better?

 

[Coppersmith]

Also, when I'm running a 3-4 person crew, I always have to tell somebody to put on their safety glasses every 30 minutes throughout the entire day.

 

[jmellc]

What you are seeing are businesses trying to avoid being sued because the workers and contractors are lazy and will work unsafe if you allow them to. Ladders are dangerous when used normally and according to the rules printed on them. You can easily fall off and die when you hit bottom. I knew two j-man who did just that. Add to that the people who violate those rules and stand on the top two steps. No wonder larger jobs have to have meetings to tell people not to do stupid things. Being sued is expensive and the more people on the job, the greater the chance that injuries will occur.

Maybe if there were video cameras recording all the workers and the courts ruled that if you do something stupid and die, your estate can't sue your employer or the place you were working, there would be fewer meetings. Do you think that would be better?

No one wants accidents, least of all me. I’m older than I used to be & don’t recover as quickly as I used to. But the issue is being slowed down by the customer, then being pushed by the boss. Losing 90 minutes or more each day is hard to recover from. Production is naturally much slower when jumping through more hoops. I never argued with doing their procedures. The afternoon griping was a bit much. That job had a good crew, doing all they could to keep work going.

 

[jmellc]

Also, when I'm running a 3-4 person crew, I always have to tell somebody to put on their safety glasses every 30 minutes throughout the entire day.

No problem there. I wear prescription safety glasses & can’t see 10 feet without them.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I would've and did told them to go pound sand. As I make more production then the average employee. I pretty much said get out of my way so we can get the job done. I've worked all over Durham NC without much issues.
If they want to play games they can 'up' my insurance otherwise the job will be done before they can complain to their superiors
I can remember down in Dukes 0 level we would all be on the top runs of A frame ladders swaying back and fourth pulling fire alarm in and under the slab that had just been poured above us. We thought it was great. We had so much fun . It was the comradery, we are a team...
We could usually weed out the pansy's that might complain about spraining an ankle, etc...
I know things have changed - but - I have not... Still got to get the job done ASAP . were not a government agency,

 

[James L]

I would've and did told them to go pound sand. As I make more production then the average employee. I pretty much said get out of my way so we can get the job done. I've worked all over Durham NC without much issues.
If they want to play games they can 'up' my insurance otherwise the job will be done before they can complain to their superiors
I can remember down in Dukes 0 level we would all be on the top runs of A frame ladders swaying back and fourth pulling fire alarm in and under the slab that had just been poured above us. We thought it was great. We had so much fun . It was the comradery, we are a team...
We could usually weed out the pansy's that might complain about spraining an ankle, etc...
I know things have changed - but - I have not... Still got to get the job done ASAP . were not a government agency,

I'm with you all the way. Weed out the pansies

When I was wiring new homes back in the 90s, there was one coworker who literally wouldn't go two rungs up on a ladder outside unless his helper was standing on the bottom rung to keep it from sliding.

I told him it looked they were spooning

I also told him he picked the wrong trade. He should have been a carpet layer.

 

[jmellc]

I would've and did told them to go pound sand. As I make more production then the average employee. I pretty much said get out of my way so we can get the job done. I've worked all over Durham NC without much issues.
If they want to play games they can 'up' my insurance otherwise the job will be done before they can complain to their superiors
I can remember down in Dukes 0 level we would all be on the top runs of A frame ladders swaying back and fourth pulling fire alarm in and under the slab that had just been poured above us. We thought it was great. We had so much fun . It was the comradery, we are a team...
We could usually weed out the pansy's that might complain about spraining an ankle, etc...
I know things have changed - but - I have not... Still got to get the job done ASAP . were not a government agency,

I did a few jobs at Duke with 3 bosses. Mostly good projects there & pleasant environments. Cadaver lab was a challenge. A little eerie.

 

[kwired]

I would've and did told them to go pound sand. As I make more production then the average employee. I pretty much said get out of my way so we can get the job done. I've worked all over Durham NC without much issues.
If they want to play games they can 'up' my insurance otherwise the job will be done before they can complain to their superiors
I can remember down in Dukes 0 level we would all be on the top runs of A frame ladders swaying back and fourth pulling fire alarm in and under the slab that had just been poured above us. We thought it was great. We had so much fun . It was the comradery, we are a team...
We could usually weed out the pansy's that might complain about spraining an ankle, etc...
I know things have changed - but - I have not... Still got to get the job done ASAP . were not a government agency,

Sounds great, until whoever does get injured or even killed tries to sue anyone and everyone possible because they did nothing to prevent the accident. That is why there is seemingly ridiculous safety policies. If you were working at a Walmart, the greed kicks in in the courtroom, lets go after the employer, the GC, other trades that may have any connection to this, and of course Walmart as well. Even though the individual may have done something stupid entirely on his own that was the primary cause of whatever happened.