200 Amp Subpanel

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NOOB

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Illinois
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Project Engineer 3
Background information: Masters in Engineering, General Engineering training in College, Experience in writing, contractor hired for install. Looking for information so verify contractors decisions agreeing to work.

Hello,
  • I'm trying to determine the best way to wire my 200 amp Subpanel.
    Spec:
    Siemens 320/400 meter/main with (2) 200 amp breakers
    200 amp 40 curcuit Square D Homeline Subpanel for house
    100 amp Subpanel for garage and hot tub to be selected and installed later

    Meter/main location end of ranch house with 2.5 foot dirt crawl space.

    OPTION (1):
    Out of the back of the meter/main into exterior wall up to attic (5 ft) through attic to interior wall where 200 amp supanel is flush mounted (30ft) down inside of interior wall to sub panel (4 ft)
    All walls are 2x4.

    OPTION (2):
    Out of bottom of meter/main to ground then under the block foundation into crawlspace to bottom of interior subpanel wall. Could go out of the back of the meter main into exterior wall then down into crawl space through bottom of exterior wall.

    I understand through the attic the feeder wire needs to be above the insulation and protected and in the crawl space it may need to be protected from moisture and mice. All terminals are 75 degree.

    Any help appreciated.
 
If I were doing it I would go into the crawl space direct from the main panel.

I am not sure why you are asking this because usually the electrical contractor will see which is the easiest way to go.
 
Just getting a second opinion on the options. One way maybe easy labor wise but cost more and the other way maybe harder labor wise but cost less with the price of material these day. I've already ran into that issue with the general construction contractor.
 
Also, if one way is perfered with respect to quality in final product and code I'd prefer it that way even if it cost more due to being more labor intensive. The crawl space is tight and currently very mudding/wet due to other issues being fixed/repaired, but the electric needs install asap. So the crawl space run is a pain with respect to the electrician getting in and out.
 
If you've hired a contractor that is qualified, why are you micro-managing what he does? If you don't have confidence in him, then hire another one.
 
I have very limited option in my area due to rural location and scheduling of other contractors.
 
There is no way to tell you what the "best" way is because there are a ton of factors you don't know about so can't tell us. let the contractor do his job. There just is no way to validate what he is doing by giving some small part of the information needed to make an informed decision to some strangers on the Internet and expecting them to have the answer.

Just out of curiosity, who came up with these options?

If mice are a problem in the crawl space they will be a problem everywhere.
 
Its from the discussion I had with the contractor.. But more or less since the meter has to be mounted between the mid point and the closest corner of either the front or one of the ends of the ranch style house due to ameren's requirements and the subpanel in mounted in the center of the house in the utility room therefore are only two options the attic or crawl space. Unless you want to the run feeder cable through all the wall stud between the exterior/interior walls and the utility room with multiple interior doors and bends to deal with. Or rewire the whole house to move the current panel.
 
It sounds like you have the answer since you have limited options. I suggest you and your contractor discuss the cost difference etc.. This is not really something for this forum to discuss more than what has been said already
 
I recognize your desire to get some second opinions from the experts here, but as you can see there is a general hesitancy to offer advice of a DIY nature, and the forum rules prevent this for good reason (as you know.) Many (most?) of the experts here are contractors themselves and would dislike their clients telling them "a person on a forum told me..." so they do unto to others and such.

If you are limited in your selection of local contractors and you don't trust the ones available then your only other option is to find somebody from further away and pay extra for a consultation.

If you have a specific code concern then stick to the code section/material selection questions only. For example "does code allow XXXXX to be used in such and such way? Does code section XXX.XX prevent the use of this material? etc..." That's my advice anyway...
 
Yeah just needed another electricians view point that doesn't have any skin in the game so to speak. Sounds like you're view piont is the crawl space so thank you.
 
I understand code and material and understand that there are many ways to do thing even with in the code long as you follow the details. If you had two workable options to choose from and both made you the same money then there's a chance someone would choose what's easiest for them verse the least pleasing physically. But either thank you for your time. I'll be sure not to miss use the website any further.
 
NOOB said:
I understand code and material and understand that there are many ways to do thing even with in the code long as you follow the details. If you had two workable options to choose from and both made you the same money then there's a chance someone would choose what's easiest for them verse the least pleasing physically. But either thank you for your time. I'll be sure not to miss use the website any further.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone said you are misusing the web site. But given the little bit of information you are able to give us about your situation it is very hard to second guess what your contractor is telling you.
 
Understood and I didn't think any other information would be required since options require a 4 wire system due to being a subpanel and protection since both have permanent access / damage concerns. Either can be individual wires or SER as long as the correct protection and connection between the meter combo is correct with respect to the code (outside box to inside house or straight from box to inside house) is used. The main difference would be if the derating in the attic due to the temperature increase (especially if the house insulation is involved) causing much larger feeder wire. Since the panel can't be concider to carry the full dwelling load it has to carry the full 200 amps to the subpanel. From my question stand point which option would you choose knowing your whether benefiting from the project either way. You have a better chance to feel confident in someone's opinion is they have nothing to gain from it themselves.
 
You have not even mentioned what kind of wiring method the contractor is suggesting. If there is a rodent concern than probably NM is a bad option and I would be inclined toward something more robust like EMT, MC, UF, or sch 80 PVC.

If the crawl space is a wet disaster, it is pretty critical that before you do much of anything else you deal with the moisture there or you will end up with a mold problem.
 
Rodents aren't much of a concern as there arent currently any signs of them anywhere in the home; however, you never know for sure down road. As for the wet muddy crawl space it is being worked on currently, but its not a quick fix. The general contractor has already ran into a mold issue in the attic from the previous own improperly venting the bathrooms into the attic and not having any attic ventilation and small area of mold near the patio doors that he just replaced, but so far that is all that has been found/noticed. The main problem is the power company wants the meter moved as soon as possible since it's currently inside the home. Don't ask me how it was allowed in there as I purchased the home that way. Mold issue verse meter location issue.
 
It was once pretty common for electric meters to be inside. if you were not home when the meter reader stopped by, they would leave you a prepaid card to mark the dial readings on and mail in.
 
Hmm, I see. I've never heard or saw that before, find it hard to believe. For one, it would seem to be a hazard during a fire as there wouldn't be quick means to disconnect the power to the home. Also, it not the best looking wall piece.
 
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