Home Inspections

[Doc13067]

I’m sure all of us resi guys have jobs that come from a house being sold and an inspector lists a number of electrical issues that need to be corrected. Where I live there is a license that needs to be obtained from the township and an inspector comes out and investigates before the license is issued. The inspectors always find basic stuff like GFCIs, I’m fact it’s seems that’s all they know about lol. So they point out a bunch of GFCIs that need to be changed, etc. and if they are done as per the list the license is issued. However, by requiring outlets to be changed in certain areas they trigger other codes like arc faults and before you know it I’m telling the client I have to change breakers. They also will say do something with the ground rod but I find there are not two rods and the GEC is too small. So I wind up opening a can of worms for the homeowners.
My question is this, do you all just do what’s on the list in these cases or do you address all the things the inspector didn’t know to mention because you know according to the code you are supposed to do it? Does the inspector being involved give you the one and only excuse to cut corners? Lol. I always do it according to code beyond what the inspector says but I wanted to make sure I’m not the only guy doing that.
To be clear, this is not an electrical inspector this is a township inspector that’s giving permission for the house to be listed for sale.

 

[AC\DC]

Are state omitted a lot of the retro fit AFCI requirements, but from what I recall changing a receptacles to GFCI does not constitute installing afci breakers. When I get information from home inspector I do my own walk through and tell the homeowner of any dangerous issue the inspector did not find. If they don’t fix it then I’ll move on. Most of the time it’s real estate agents trying to negotiate prices from buyer and seller. First year. I was dealing with them none stop, they no longer call me cause I go beyond the home inspector, and I am perfectly happy with that.

 

[ramsy]

First year. I was dealing with them none stop, they no longer call me cause I go beyond the home inspector, and I am perfectly happy with that.

I consider it a badge of honor.

 

[romex jockey]

My question is this, do you all just do what’s on the list in these cases or do you address all the things the inspector didn’t know to mention because you know according to the code you are supposed to do it?

Depends on the situation Doc

I'm my state, anyone can be an HI, so we get anything from engineering firms to trunk slammers.
The bigger companies i don't worry about, the fly by nighter's i didn't worry about either, just gained access to complete my list of 'to do's , and billed it out.....

Until i got a call from a lawyer , apparently one real estate sale went south into buyer/seller dispute, the subsequent litigation's focus being everything the HI missed......

So now every trade, butcher, baker, candlestick maker were being called on the court room carpet for malfeasance .....

WHY? Because the HI had zero liability insurance , and the rest of us did.....

~RJ~

 

[Doc13067]

Depends on the situation Doc

I'm my state, anyone can be an HI, so we get anything from engineering firms to trunk slammers.
The bigger companies i don't worry about, the fly by nighter's i didn't worry about either, just gained access to complete my list of 'to do's , and billed it out.....

Until i got a call from a lawyer , apparently one real estate sale went south into buyer/seller dispute, the subsequent litigation's focus being everything the HI missed......

So now every trade, butcher, baker, candlestick maker were being called on the court room carpet for malfeasance .....

WHY? Because the HI had zero liability insurance , and the rest of us did.....

~RJ~

Wow what a nightmare!! That is a headache and I’m sorry you had to deal with that! That’s precisely my worst nightmare, which is why I’m hesitant to just do what’s on the list and ignore other codes that it is triggering. Once you touch it you own it, right? Your story would not be the first time I heard of a lousy home inspector.

 

[Doc13067]

Are state omitted a lot of the retro fit AFCI requirements, but from what I recall changing a receptacles to GFCI does not constitute installing afci breakers. When I get information from home inspector I do my own walk through and tell the homeowner of any dangerous issue the inspector did not find. If they don’t fix it then I’ll move on. Most of the time it’s real estate agents trying to negotiate prices from buyer and seller. First year. I was dealing with them none stop, they no longer call me cause I go beyond the home inspector, and I am perfectly happy with that.

Are state omitted a lot of the retro fit AFCI requirements, but from what I recall changing a receptacles to GFCI does not constitute installing afci breakers. When I get information from home inspector I do my own walk through and tell the homeowner of any dangerous issue the inspector did not find. If they don’t fix it then I’ll move on. Most of the time it’s real estate agents trying to negotiate prices from buyer and seller. First year. I was dealing with them none stop, they no longer call me cause I go beyond the home inspector, and I am perfectly happy with that.

Well that’s because the home inspectors aren’t necessarily up on the NEC like an electrical inspector should be so they cite things incorrectly. Then you have to cover your butt so you don’t get wrapped up in a situation like Romex Jockey. So you are wise for going beyond the HI and may have saved yourself some headaches as a result.

 

[ramsy]

.Until i got a call from a lawyer ..
WHY? Because the HI had zero liability insurance , and the rest of us did....

RJ, who's insurance paid for the defects?

 

[romex jockey]

RJ, who's insurance paid for the defects?

to my knowledge , none of the trades Ramsy

although a number of us were confronted , it never made a court docket

~RJ~

 

[infinity]

Wow what a nightmare!! That is a headache and I’m sorry you had to deal with that! That’s precisely my worst nightmare, which is why I’m hesitant to just do what’s on the list and ignore other codes that it is triggering. Once you touch it you own it, right? Your story would not be the first time I heard of a lousy home inspector.

I don't know about in PA but here if you go to make corrections from an inspection report you do not own all of the electrical problems that may be present. You're not there to do an electrical inspection you're there to fix things that have been negotiated between the buyer and the seller.

If they want to pay you go beyond that then you can offer that service but if you're there to change out a few receptacles you don't own every other electrical problem unless the laws in your state say that you do, here they do not. Does the law in PA actually require you to bring the place up to the current code?

 

[romex jockey]

I don't know about in PA but here if you go to make corrections from an inspection report you do not own all of the electrical problems that may be present. You're not there to do an electrical inspection you're there to fix things that have been negotiated between the buyer and the seller.

If they want to pay you go beyond that then you can offer that service but if you're there to change out a few receptacles you don't own every other electrical problem unless the laws in your state say that you do, here they do not. Does the law in PA actually require you to bring the place up to the current code?

True the law is a consideration Infinity, but there exists an ethical conundrum for some requests

For ex., consider one HI who claimed the electrical panel 'old & in need of replacement'

No more specifics than that ......

WWYD?

~RJ~

 

[infinity]

For ex., consider one HI who claimed the electrical panel 'old & in need of replacement'

If someone hires an electrician to only evaluate the panel then that's what they're being paid to do. They may take it upon themselves to point out other issues that they see but there is no obligation to do so. If the sparky wants to do a free inspection to maybe get some more work out of the job that's his prerogative. I certainly would not be doing any such thing because you may end up in the middle of the battle between the buyer and seller for the sale of the house and if the deal goes south because of you you could have potential problems.

 

[romex jockey]

If someone hires an electrician to only evaluate the panel then that's what they're being paid to do. They may take it upon themselves to point out other issues that they see but there is no obligation to do so. If the sparky wants to do a free inspection to maybe get some more work out of the job that's his prerogative. I certainly would not be doing any such thing because you may end up in the middle of the battle between the buyer and seller for the sale of the house and if the deal goes south because of you you could have potential problems.

One can still be caught between malfeasance and nonfeasance as an EC doing nothing or selling something un needed Infinity .

In the ex i posted, eventually i found that NACHI had a 'standard' of evaluation

so yes, i ended up doing 'free inspections' , where the HI's really didn't do much of one at all

d*mned if....d*mned if not..... ~S~

 

[growler]

True the law is a consideration Infinity, but there exists an ethical conundrum for some requests

For ex., consider one HI who claimed the electrical panel 'old & in need of replacement'

No more specifics than that ......

WWYD?

~RJ~

I don't see a conundrum here. The HI thinks the panel is old and should be replaced.

There is no way you can say that a 30-40 year old panel is as good as a newly installed panel. For one thing most of the breakers in an old panel are normally old and many connections may have become loose.

If I see the statement on a home inspection report that a panel is old and in need of replacement I just quote a price to replace the panel.

The things listed on a home inspection report can be nothing more than a negotiating tool betweeen buyer and seller. They may decide to knok off a few bucks on the price rather than get the panel replaced. I don't see any reason to get in the middle of a home sale unless I'm paid to.

 

[infinity]

One can still be caught between malfeasance and nonfeasance as an EC doing nothing or selling something un needed Infinity .

In the ex i posted, eventually i found that NACHI had a 'standard' of evaluation

so yes, i ended up doing 'free inspections' , where the HI's really didn't do much of one at all

d*mned if....d*mned if not..... ~S~

Things vary from state to state but pretty much you can be sued anywhere at anytime by anybody that doesn't mean that such a suit would have any merit. Around here no one will compel an EC fixing something on a home inspection report to do a free inspection of the entire house. I would go as far as to say that for an electrical contractor that may not even be legal in this state. Doing inspections without an electrical inspectors license might not be a good idea. As I stated earlier an EC just knocking some items off of the HI's report should not be jumping into the middle of a real estate transaction.

 

[ramsy]

I don't know about in PA but here if you go to make corrections from an inspection report you do not own all of the electrical problems that may be present. You're not there to do an electrical inspection you're there to fix things that have been negotiated between the buyer and the seller.

If they want to pay you go beyond that then you can offer that service but if you're there to change out a few receptacles you don't own every other electrical problem unless the laws in your state say that you do, here they do not. Does the law in PA actually require you to bring the place up to the current code?

Contractors are liable for anything they touch, with some exceptions, per "Joint and Several liability"

For example, since Smoke detectors are critical most home inspectors look for them, some even press the test button.

If home inspector flags smoke detectors for dead battery, or improper location, and buyer or contractor fixes it, everyone is liable for casualty claims caused by violating the equipment listing.

Since less expensive hardwired smokes are installed without building power, where 10-year battery operated smokes are required, and relying on 9-volt back up batteries to run hardwired smoke's is a listing violation.

Upon casualty, contractors who didn't force the listing correction are just as liable as the seller subject to hidden, latent, or construction defect law.

If illegal construction is omitted from sellers closing statement, the majority of "Cavet Venditor" States --including PA & NJ-- hold sellers liable.

Only a handful of "Cavet Emptor" States indemnify sellers who omit defects.

 

[romex jockey]

If I see the statement on a home inspection report that a panel is old and in need of replacement I just quote a price to replace the panel.

Then allow me yet another HI report, 'panel has no main breaker', when in fact the panel was a split buss

WWYD?

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Things vary from state to state but pretty much you can be sued anywhere at anytime by anybody that doesn't mean that such a suit would have any merit

no argument there Infinity
~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Around here no one will compel an EC fixing something on a home inspection report to do a free inspection of the entire house.

Also agreed, what i found was a NACHI panel inspection , which any HI should be using, yet most do not
~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Another 'report' stated all 'red handled breakers be taken out and replaced'

again....
WWYD?
~RJ~

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

To answer your question.
I do what ever the owner of the house wants me to do. They are ones that will pay me.
In spite of what's on the list.

The HI just lists is "findings"
In the end it's only a list and the home seller and buyer have to come to an arrangement/ agreement as what will be done.