Introduce 415/240 V as a standardized voltage

WD40 said:
I just signed up for this forum because people on here are professional, polite, and non-political, I think you two need to shake hands or take it outside.
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I agree.
Both of you take a breath and start looking at each others positions with a little less attitude.
 
roger said:
I agree.
Both of you take a breath and start looking at each others positions with a little less attitude.
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I don't think I've exhibited an attitude. It's hard to tell through text, I know. I'm having a good time. I haven't called anyone daft or any such. I'm genuinely curious as to why someone thinks it is important to tell Americans how much simpler it is done in Europe. His posts are often just that. There's an interesting pathology here.
 
One (sane) person cannot have an argument.

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him."

“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
 
Flicker Index said:
This dates back to electron tube radio sets and there was a time when houses only had 120v power.
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Um, most all the tube based radios and TVs I worked on made in the 50s/60s were 117VAC. Going back into the 30s/40s they were 115 VAC. This 120 VAC stuff is new fangled crap.... :ROFLMAO:

Oh., and then there were the 115 V AC or DC sets, the All American Fives.;)

Yes, I have a Sears upright vacuum cleaner that has a 110 V AC or DC nameplate. The series would Universal motors with brushes, where the commutator changed AC to DC anyway.
 
Birken Vogt said:
I made the same post a while ago.

One other thing for those out west. In the rest of the world instead of having bare 12,000 volt wires down every country lane, they have one big central transformer and then distribute fairly long distances at 230/400. So less risk of fires from branches and such, low voltage.

Of course most existing global electronics and lighting can already run on 240.

Plus 240 volt kettles for the kitchen are like 3500 watts at 240, get your coffee and tea faster.
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I do love the tea kettles in Ireland... :)
 
Back in the day-1975-1986 when I was in the military doing generator stuff, we had 3 phase 4 wire generators with diesel engines. The "low voltage" was 120/208Y. The "high voltage" was 240/416Y. We had 60hz and 400hz generators. I only remember one time using the 240/416 voltage and that was to shack that was for radar. Every other time it was 120/208.
If we did go to the global voltage, it would be a plague for the DIYers. Do we really want that kind of population control?
 
Birken Vogt said:
I made the same post a while ago.

One other thing for those out west. In the rest of the world instead of having bare 12,000 volt wires down every country lane, they have one big central transformer and then distribute fairly long distances at 230/400. So less risk of fires from branches and such, low voltage.

Of course most existing global electronics and lighting can already run on 240.

Plus 240 volt kettles for the kitchen are like 3500 watts at 240, get your coffee and tea faster.
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Like a lot of other things that work overseas, doesn’t work in the US. We are a much larger and spread out country. Even at 230/400, the cost in rural areas would be prohibitively expensive. It would work fine in the big cities.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Like a lot of other things that work overseas, doesn’t work in the US. We are a much larger and spread out country. Even at 230/400, the cost in rural areas would be prohibitively expensive. It would work fine in the big cities.
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USA is a large country, a single large country But with diversity in electrical systems. The EU is larger but with one single voltage system
 
Frank DuVal said:
Um, most all the tube based radios and TVs I worked on made in the 50s/60s were 117VAC. Going back into the 30s/40s they were 115 VAC. This 120 VAC stuff is new fangled crap.... :ROFLMAO:

Oh., and then there were the 115 V AC or DC sets, the All American Fives.;)

Yes, I have a Sears upright vacuum cleaner that has a 110 V AC or DC nameplate. The series would Universal motors with brushes, where the commutator changed AC to DC anyway.
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Odd. Treadmill and such motors are 90Vdc, intended for SCR control.
Universal motors work fine on rectrified AC where the arches are unidirectional, but it's going to take a much costlier special switch to shut off a plain DC at 10A.
 
I have tried to look at the NFPA Public Input for this change and I can't seem to find it (likely user error). Will it be in Section 220.5? Can anyone provide a weblink to the proper NFPA source?
 
ron said:
I have tried to look at the NFPA Public Input for this change and I can't seem to find it (likely user error). Will it be in Section 220.5?
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It will, except that Article 220 has been renumbered to 120, so it's in 2026 NEC 120.5.

ron said:
Can anyone provide a weblink to the proper NFPA source?
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The CMP version of the change is First Revision No. 7992-NFPA 70-2024. You can go to nfpa.org/70, go to the "Next Edition" tab just below the initial description, go to "First Draft" to click on "First Draft Report," then go to 120.5 and click on the "PIs" link just after the 120.5 title.

Cheers, Wayne
 
ron said:
I have tried to look at the NFPA Public Input for this change and I can't seem to find it (likely user error). Will it be in Section 220.5? Can anyone provide a weblink to the proper NFPA source?
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It was PI 2916.
Public Input No. 2916-NFPA 70-2023 [ Section No. 220.5(A) ]

(A) Voltages.
Unless other voltages are specified, for purposes of calculating branch-circuit and feeder loads, nominal system voltages of 120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 416Y/240, 480Y/277, 480, 600Y/347, and 600 volts shall be used.

Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Many industrial and commercial facilities, such as data centers, now use a 416Y/240 volt system. Some manufacturers call this a 415Y/240 volt system, others a 400Y/230 volt system. Adding this as a standard voltage to article 220 will assist users of the code, AHJ's and manufacturers when performing load calculations for these systems.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Stephen Schmiechen
Organization: [ Not Specified ]
Street Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Submittal Date: Sun Aug 27 16:08:25 EDT 2023
Committee: NEC-P02
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-7992-NFPA 70-2024
Statement: Many industrial and commercial facilities, such as data centers, now use a 416Y/240 volt system. Adding this as a standard voltage to Article 220 assists users of the Code when performing load calculations for these systems.
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