Meter utilized as disconnect

X

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
Occupation
Master Electrician
Hello,
May a POCO meter be utilized as a disconnecting means or should it be allowed to? According to my knowledge this was permissible at some point for residential services.
 
Used to be pretty standard for FDs to pop the meter. That is not a 230.85 Emergency Disconnect however.

As far as pulling the meter to work on it, I do it all the time. PG&E troubleshooters even leave me fistfuls of tags to retag their meters when I’m done.
 
Besides being a really bad idea to say pulling the meter is your service disconnect, I dont think it would meet 230.62. I doubt a meter is rated to be pulled under load, and I think you disconnect requires that capability, although I cant find a code reference for that.

AS far as pulling a meter for maintenance and service, yes that is very common in some areas. Some POCOS will scold you for doing that if they find out, but repercussions other than being scolded like you are a little child are very rare
 
I am saying no to it being a service disconnect.

90.2(B)(5)

The meter socket and metering device are under the control of the utility. Some might allow you to pull the meter can but other may not. It is a policy that can change.

Meters are not supposed to be disconnected under load. They are not rated for it. Some utility meter techs might do it, but it doesn't mean they are doing it correctly lol. You are supposed to operate the main first. It can damage the meter.

And lastly, 230.76.


Using it to de-energize a service for maintenance work with the utility approval, than I don't see an issue. The service conductors in the meter can is still hot though.
 
Elect117 said:
The meter socket and metering device are under the control of the utility.
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I would disagree with that, at least in cases where the service point is before the meter. In those cases, typically the meter socket is owned by the property owner. I think there are very few jurisdictions that actually have a law stating you cannot cut a meter seal. Without a law, I am free to do it.
 
electrofelon said:
I would disagree with that, at least in cases where the service point is before the meter. In those cases, typically the meter socket is owned by the property owner. I think there are very few jurisdictions that actually have a law stating you cannot cut a meter seal. Without a law, I am free to do it.
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There are more than you think. NY has statutes that prevent you from METER TAMPERING. Cutting a seal and pulling a meter for work is not meter tampering IMO.
If meter tampering can be proven, there or can be hefty fines, disconnection of service, reports to licensing boards, etc.

Now in reality, it’s not worth the time for a utility to pursue the issue of stealing power. You steal power for a week, you’re up to what, $50??
It costs more than that to have a lineman visit the site.

It’s easier to chastise, put the meter back and go on.
Now, if it becomes a habit, we will disconnect and leave you in the dark a couple of days.

Pulling the meter for work? I’ll give you a couple of seals. Electricians aren’t the meter tampering culprits.

I did have a site where someone opened an instrument rated meter and cut ONE of the three wires going to the internal CTs.
No one would have ever found out if I wasn’t getting phasers for all our CT metered accounts
 
Hv&Lv said:
There are more than you think. NY has statutes that prevent you from METER TAMPERING. Cutting a seal and pulling a meter for work is not meter tampering IMO.
If meter tampering can be proven, there or can be hefty fines, disconnection of service, reports to licensing boards, etc.

Now in reality, it’s not worth the time for a utility to pursue the issue of stealing power. You steal power for a week, you’re up to what, $50??
It costs more than that to have a lineman visit the site.

It’s easier to chastise, put the meter back and go on.
Now, if it becomes a habit, we will disconnect and leave you in the dark a couple of days.

Pulling the meter for work? I’ll give you a couple of seals. Electricians aren’t the meter tampering culprits.

I did have a site where someone opened an instrument rated meter and cut ONE of the three wires going to the internal CTs.
No one would have ever found out if I wasn’t getting phasers for all our CT metered accounts
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Right, depending on the exact wording of the law, meter tampering or theft of services would likely require proof of intent to damage or steal. I have not looked at any of the specific wording of these laws, but I assume just cutting a seal is not enough for a conviction.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
Used to be pretty standard for FDs to pop the meter. That is not a 230.85 Emergency Disconnect however.

As far as pulling the meter to work on it, I do it all the time. PG&E troubleshooters even leave me fistfuls of tags to retag their meters when I’m done.
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Used to be the case here, but now with smart metering it's not the case. They may leave a tag to seal it when we are done, but pulling must be done by POCO.
 
ptonsparky said:
Used to be the case here, but now with smart metering it's not the case. They may leave a tag to seal it when we are done, but pulling must be done by POCO.
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I would think it depends on how they use their system. They can look at it at anytime and see what meters are not active, but they may or may not have their system programmed to give any sort alert of non active meters. They likely can look at history to see when a particular meter was non active, but likely don't do that unless there is something they are trying to resolve. So with some systems you possibly could remove a meter for a few minutes or even a couple hours and it might not get noticed or it may be noticed that it was restored but they might not do anything unless there is some suspicion of something being wrong if it only happens just one time.

POCO's here mostly use this information when there has been storms to be able to tell where damages have occurred. Some might look once or twice a day just to see it there is problems out there but haven't had customer call ins.

A few years ago I had a farmer call me - no power to grain bins. I determined it was a POCO side issue. Lineman that I talked to said they knew about it for a few days but knew what it supplied and had other higher priorities before checking it out.
 
To me in an emergency an electrician should be allowed to pull a meter for a repair, bad main breaker, loose wires etc. But around here a lot of meters are locked with a hardened lock.

You read the POCO book and they make it sound like pulling the meter is tampering.
 
Depends on the district too, I’ve called Georgia Power to have them pull the meter, and they would say “can’t you do it?” Then on the next one, I call them to come reseal it, and get chewed out “ you electricians need to stop pulling our meters”.
 
Eddie702 said:
To me in an emergency an electrician should be allowed to pull a meter for a repair, bad main breaker, loose wires etc. But around here a lot of meters are locked with a hardened lock.

You read the POCO book and they make it sound like pulling the meter is tampering.
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There are jurisdictions around here where cutting a POCO tag would result in a fine and/or the suspension of a contractor's ability to work in the area.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Depends on the district too, I’ve called Georgia Power to have them pull the meter, and they would say “can’t you do it?” Then on the next one, I call them to come reseal it, and get chewed out “ you electricians need to stop pulling our meters”.
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This.

I have had a meter tech swear that the inspector needed to re-inspect the WHOLE switchgear for tampering just because solar contractors cut their ties to see if there was room to make a line side tap between the meter and main.
 
ggunn said:
There are jurisdictions around here where cutting a POCO tag would result in a fine and/or the suspension of a contractor's ability to work in the area.
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I know you have some municipal POCOs there where I could see them having the legal authority to dish out fines, but for private POCOs they can threaten all they want but I don't think they have any authority to issue fines, unless it's specifically in the tariff.
 
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