minnesota masters test
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al hildenbrand
Senior Member
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- Minnesota
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- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: minnesota masters test
buzzie,
I just took my 16 hours of continuing ed. at a class from the MEA. One of the things talked about was the new test. Evidently, the Minnesota State Board is rolling out a new test with a new format, so. . .lucky you. It has no history.
Seriously, it's very cool that you're going for it. I wish you the best of luck.
I gather that it is a timed test, now. So, the single most important point: don't get bogged down on a question. There are more than can be answered in the time allowed. Go for all that come easy and double back and do the next easiest, and double back again and so on.
Read here and look things up. The answers don't count without the NEC citation.
buzzie,
I just took my 16 hours of continuing ed. at a class from the MEA. One of the things talked about was the new test. Evidently, the Minnesota State Board is rolling out a new test with a new format, so. . .lucky you. It has no history.
Seriously, it's very cool that you're going for it. I wish you the best of luck.
I gather that it is a timed test, now. So, the single most important point: don't get bogged down on a question. There are more than can be answered in the time allowed. Go for all that come easy and double back and do the next easiest, and double back again and so on.
Read here and look things up. The answers don't count without the NEC citation.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: minnesota masters test
I took it a few months ago for the second time. I failed it the first time by one question. State law mandates a six-month wait for a re-test if you fail. I did much better the second time I took it. The exam itself has 25 open-book questions and 50 closed-book questions.
The open-book questions are a mix of straight code questions and some calculations where you have to get information from various tables and do some math. To get credit for a correct answer, though, you have to choose the correct answer AND list the correct code reference for that answer. Overall, I didn't think this section was all that hard. The calculation questions in the Mike Holt Exam Prep book were much more involved. The only reference you get is a codebook, which they provide at the exam. They also provide the calculator, so you can't use an ElectriCalc or anything.
The closed-book questions were a mix of theory and code questions. Some of the theory stuff was stuff like "What's the most likely reason a fuse that isn't overloaded would be hot to the touch?". But this section had quite a few straight code questions, except you have no codebook to refer to. Make sure you know how many #10, #12, and #14 wires fit in various boxes, how deep various kinds of cables/conduit systems need to be buried, clearances, support rules for various wiring methods, etc. A lot of the code questions were things that would be easy to look up but hard if you don't have them memorized.
The exam itself is somewhat flawed, which is why they are implementing a new one. No one really knows what will be on the new one, but I suspect that it will be harder than the old one.
I took it a few months ago for the second time. I failed it the first time by one question. State law mandates a six-month wait for a re-test if you fail. I did much better the second time I took it. The exam itself has 25 open-book questions and 50 closed-book questions.
The open-book questions are a mix of straight code questions and some calculations where you have to get information from various tables and do some math. To get credit for a correct answer, though, you have to choose the correct answer AND list the correct code reference for that answer. Overall, I didn't think this section was all that hard. The calculation questions in the Mike Holt Exam Prep book were much more involved. The only reference you get is a codebook, which they provide at the exam. They also provide the calculator, so you can't use an ElectriCalc or anything.
The closed-book questions were a mix of theory and code questions. Some of the theory stuff was stuff like "What's the most likely reason a fuse that isn't overloaded would be hot to the touch?". But this section had quite a few straight code questions, except you have no codebook to refer to. Make sure you know how many #10, #12, and #14 wires fit in various boxes, how deep various kinds of cables/conduit systems need to be buried, clearances, support rules for various wiring methods, etc. A lot of the code questions were things that would be easy to look up but hard if you don't have them memorized.
The exam itself is somewhat flawed, which is why they are implementing a new one. No one really knows what will be on the new one, but I suspect that it will be harder than the old one.
Re: minnesota masters test
thanks guys for the info. i hope that my time studying(took the winter off to study, 5-6 hours a day. no fishing) will put me over the 70% mark.
i'll try to put you on my buddie list and let you know it went. first week in march is the magic day. thanks again.
thanks guys for the info. i hope that my time studying(took the winter off to study, 5-6 hours a day. no fishing) will put me over the 70% mark.
i'll try to put you on my buddie list and let you know it went. first week in march is the magic day. thanks again.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: minnesota masters test
Why take Nebraska and Minnesota? I'm pretty sure Nebraska has full reciprocity for licensing with Minnesota. After you've had your license for one year, you can get it without an exam in the other state. You just have to pay a fee.
Wisconsin has reciprocity with no one.
The Minnesota exam is probably going to be changing soon. You'd be better off taking it sooner rather than later, as no one really knows what the new exam will be like.
Why take Nebraska and Minnesota? I'm pretty sure Nebraska has full reciprocity for licensing with Minnesota. After you've had your license for one year, you can get it without an exam in the other state. You just have to pay a fee.
Wisconsin has reciprocity with no one.
The Minnesota exam is probably going to be changing soon. You'd be better off taking it sooner rather than later, as no one really knows what the new exam will be like.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: minnesota masters test
I just got a fax from the Minnesota Electrical Association, Minneapolis, MN, that is offering two free classes headed by John Schultz, the State Board head honcho. Each class will be informational, with a Q&A session, all about the new Licensing Exam.
You can choose either Friday, Feb. 11, in Minneapolis, or Wed., Mar. 9, in Coon Rapids. They, each are one hour long, from 5 to 6 PM.
Pre-Registration required, but it is free.
Send me a post by this board if you need more info.
I just got a fax from the Minnesota Electrical Association, Minneapolis, MN, that is offering two free classes headed by John Schultz, the State Board head honcho. Each class will be informational, with a Q&A session, all about the new Licensing Exam.
You can choose either Friday, Feb. 11, in Minneapolis, or Wed., Mar. 9, in Coon Rapids. They, each are one hour long, from 5 to 6 PM.
Pre-Registration required, but it is free.
Send me a post by this board if you need more info.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: minnesota masters test
I suspect the Q&A is going to cover format and general stuff, but not really be all that helpful in terms of passing the exam. He's not going to be giving away any insider's info.
I suspect the Q&A is going to cover format and general stuff, but not really be all that helpful in terms of passing the exam. He's not going to be giving away any insider's info.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: minnesota masters test
Jeff,
When preparing for an unknown, any information is more than one had before and helps with the exam prep. The article in the January MEA Newsletter states that the failure rate for the first times that the New Test was actually given to applicants was 91%! The public reaction was intense enough that the State Board went back to the old test till June or July while they retool the New Test.
There are several agencies that teach to the test. The MEA is one, of course. This link describes the course outline and times and locations.
Buzz, I note there is one class before the end of February. . .taking it right before the formal exam by the State would have it fresh in your mind. I, personally, took a similar course way back when, and found it was gold. Nothing like being in a group of people all working against the clock on a practice set of questions to build confidence. The discussion of the answers immediately after the practice also drives home the info in a way that self study doesn't.
Buzz, here's the real reason for considering the MEA Exam Prep class. If you don't pass the first time, the MEA will let you repeat the class one time for free. Given that the next test will be six months from now, it will almost certainly be the new test, and it will be on the 2005 NEC, not the 2002. The course repeat will be invaluable for that.
I've mentioned the MEA only 'cause I note the info that I receive from time to time at my office. There are other educators listed at the State Board web site. Calling to find ones that also teach to the exam will provide other choices for you.
Jeff,
When preparing for an unknown, any information is more than one had before and helps with the exam prep. The article in the January MEA Newsletter states that the failure rate for the first times that the New Test was actually given to applicants was 91%! The public reaction was intense enough that the State Board went back to the old test till June or July while they retool the New Test.
There are several agencies that teach to the test. The MEA is one, of course. This link describes the course outline and times and locations.
Buzz, I note there is one class before the end of February. . .taking it right before the formal exam by the State would have it fresh in your mind. I, personally, took a similar course way back when, and found it was gold. Nothing like being in a group of people all working against the clock on a practice set of questions to build confidence. The discussion of the answers immediately after the practice also drives home the info in a way that self study doesn't.
Buzz, here's the real reason for considering the MEA Exam Prep class. If you don't pass the first time, the MEA will let you repeat the class one time for free. Given that the next test will be six months from now, it will almost certainly be the new test, and it will be on the 2005 NEC, not the 2002. The course repeat will be invaluable for that.
I've mentioned the MEA only 'cause I note the info that I receive from time to time at my office. There are other educators listed at the State Board web site. Calling to find ones that also teach to the exam will provide other choices for you.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: minnesota masters test
Actually, I believe the article said that only one person of 91 passed the new tests (journeyman and master), making the failure rate closer to 99%. I talked to Sue at the state board (she's in charge of exam administration), and she told me that the one passing score was on the journeyman exam, and he got a bare-minimum 70%. Clearly the new test was unfair, and there was enough anger from those who failed (Sue said it was *bad*) that the attorney general was contacted. He ruled that the unfairness of the new exam shouldn't be compounded by requiring those who failed to wait the six months for a retest, as required by state statute.
I spent the $450 for the MEA class before I took the test for the second time. I found it to be largely waste of time (and money!). The guy teaching the class was a former journeyman electrician (now an EIT) whose last experience with the exam was many years ago. I knew more about the exam than he did.
The exam prep course might be a good idea if you are taking the test cold without having done much of anything to prepare for it. Much of what the course covers is very basic stuff (e.g., Ohm's law), most of which doesn't show up on the exam. The course is not exam-specific, either. There were people there who were preparing for the journeyman and master.
Before I took the exam the first time, I spent many months going through everything in the Mike Holt book. I found it fairly helpful, but the test itself is not easy to prepare for unless you have specific information about it, mainly because of the memory (closed-book) questions. The 25 open-book questions really weren't too bad -- the calculations were uncomplicated, standard things involving voltage drop, wire ampacity, conduit fill, etc. If you can do the Mike Holt calculations, the exam ones will be a cakewalk.
What I found most difficult about the exam were the questions on the closed-book section that covered code trivia. There were a lot of them, and they were the kind of questions that were very easy if you happened to know the answer. They would also have been easy to answer with a code book. On some of them, I even knew exactly where the answer was in the codebook, but I didn't remember what the answer was. Examples: Busways must be supported every ________. How many #12 wires fit in a 4x4x1.5" box? I didn't happen to know those answers, as I have never worked with busways, and I don't use 4x4x1.5" boxes; I use big boxes whenever possible so I don't have to worry about box-fill calculations.
But because I didn't happen to know this kind of trivia, I had to wait six months for a retest.
Like Al said, though, it might be a good idea to take the course since they do have a free re-take policy, and the exam will almost certainly have been changed by the time a re-test would be taken. Also, I can say that there were several sample questions in the review course that were almost identical to actual questions I saw on the exam (I pointed them out to my classmates at the course). So if you do the course and try to remember the questions and answers, it should be somewhat helpful on the real exam, as you will likely see some of the same questions.
Yeah, $450 is a lot of money, but if it makes the difference between a passing and failing score, I think it would be well worth it. In retrospect, I know I would have passed the exam the second time around without having taken the MEA course, but I didn't know that at the time. It's probably more useful to someone taking the exam for the first time.
Actually, I believe the article said that only one person of 91 passed the new tests (journeyman and master), making the failure rate closer to 99%. I talked to Sue at the state board (she's in charge of exam administration), and she told me that the one passing score was on the journeyman exam, and he got a bare-minimum 70%. Clearly the new test was unfair, and there was enough anger from those who failed (Sue said it was *bad*) that the attorney general was contacted. He ruled that the unfairness of the new exam shouldn't be compounded by requiring those who failed to wait the six months for a retest, as required by state statute.
I spent the $450 for the MEA class before I took the test for the second time. I found it to be largely waste of time (and money!). The guy teaching the class was a former journeyman electrician (now an EIT) whose last experience with the exam was many years ago. I knew more about the exam than he did.
The exam prep course might be a good idea if you are taking the test cold without having done much of anything to prepare for it. Much of what the course covers is very basic stuff (e.g., Ohm's law), most of which doesn't show up on the exam. The course is not exam-specific, either. There were people there who were preparing for the journeyman and master.
Before I took the exam the first time, I spent many months going through everything in the Mike Holt book. I found it fairly helpful, but the test itself is not easy to prepare for unless you have specific information about it, mainly because of the memory (closed-book) questions. The 25 open-book questions really weren't too bad -- the calculations were uncomplicated, standard things involving voltage drop, wire ampacity, conduit fill, etc. If you can do the Mike Holt calculations, the exam ones will be a cakewalk.
What I found most difficult about the exam were the questions on the closed-book section that covered code trivia. There were a lot of them, and they were the kind of questions that were very easy if you happened to know the answer. They would also have been easy to answer with a code book. On some of them, I even knew exactly where the answer was in the codebook, but I didn't remember what the answer was. Examples: Busways must be supported every ________. How many #12 wires fit in a 4x4x1.5" box? I didn't happen to know those answers, as I have never worked with busways, and I don't use 4x4x1.5" boxes; I use big boxes whenever possible so I don't have to worry about box-fill calculations.
But because I didn't happen to know this kind of trivia, I had to wait six months for a retest.
Like Al said, though, it might be a good idea to take the course since they do have a free re-take policy, and the exam will almost certainly have been changed by the time a re-test would be taken. Also, I can say that there were several sample questions in the review course that were almost identical to actual questions I saw on the exam (I pointed them out to my classmates at the course). So if you do the course and try to remember the questions and answers, it should be somewhat helpful on the real exam, as you will likely see some of the same questions.
Yeah, $450 is a lot of money, but if it makes the difference between a passing and failing score, I think it would be well worth it. In retrospect, I know I would have passed the exam the second time around without having taken the MEA course, but I didn't know that at the time. It's probably more useful to someone taking the exam for the first time.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: minnesota masters test
Edit - duplicate post
[ February 04, 2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
Edit - duplicate post
[ February 04, 2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: minnesota masters test
Good catch, Jeff.
The failure rate on the first attempt to administer the New Test was 98.9%.
Good catch, Jeff.
The failure rate on the first attempt to administer the New Test was 98.9%.
ralpha494
Member
- Location
- Southeastern Wisconsin
Re: minnesota masters test
To vsullivan:
I just took and passed the Wisconsin Master's Exam in November. It's all on Comm 5(Licences & Regs), Comm 16(the state code that amends the NEC), and the NEC. Four hours, multiple choice, you bring the 3 afore mentioned items, pencils, a non-programmable calculator. No pagers or phones. I think dates and place are someplace in www.wisconsin.gov. as are downloadable versions of Comms 5 & 16. $120 to take the test, and $200 for four years.
To vsullivan:
I just took and passed the Wisconsin Master's Exam in November. It's all on Comm 5(Licences & Regs), Comm 16(the state code that amends the NEC), and the NEC. Four hours, multiple choice, you bring the 3 afore mentioned items, pencils, a non-programmable calculator. No pagers or phones. I think dates and place are someplace in www.wisconsin.gov. as are downloadable versions of Comms 5 & 16. $120 to take the test, and $200 for four years.
ralpha494
Member
- Location
- Southeastern Wisconsin
Re: minnesota masters test
To vsullivan:
It doesn't sound familiar. The applcation just said Comm 5 and 16.
To vsullivan:
It doesn't sound familiar. The applcation just said Comm 5 and 16.
Re: minnesota masters test
I took the MN masters in Sept. after taking the MEA exam prep class. The class was mostly worthless and the instructor was very dull. However I did pass the 1st time. It was very similar to the JW exam with many of the same questions and some others reworded. I'll be taking the WI masters on Mar. 30. If anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated!
I took the MN masters in Sept. after taking the MEA exam prep class. The class was mostly worthless and the instructor was very dull. However I did pass the 1st time. It was very similar to the JW exam with many of the same questions and some others reworded. I'll be taking the WI masters on Mar. 30. If anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated!
starbright28
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
Journeyman exam
Journeyman exam
Everyone was correct in saying about the test changed. I took the MEA class which yes the instructor already took the test a long time ago, and didn't quite know what was on the new test. A few people in the class were asking about certain things they heard and we covered that.
I took the Journeyman's test the 2nd time around (under new format this time) in April. Unfortunely I didn't pass. The class I did take helped refresh my memory from all the college stuff I learned, plus on the job training. It helped, but I didn't pass the test.
I will be taking that MEA class again because I feel it helped me refreshed on certain things I wasn't quite up to speed on, or never really had to deal with. It also helped explained on thing that I didn't understand in college.
Journeyman exam
Everyone was correct in saying about the test changed. I took the MEA class which yes the instructor already took the test a long time ago, and didn't quite know what was on the new test. A few people in the class were asking about certain things they heard and we covered that.
I took the Journeyman's test the 2nd time around (under new format this time) in April. Unfortunely I didn't pass. The class I did take helped refresh my memory from all the college stuff I learned, plus on the job training. It helped, but I didn't pass the test.
I will be taking that MEA class again because I feel it helped me refreshed on certain things I wasn't quite up to speed on, or never really had to deal with. It also helped explained on thing that I didn't understand in college.
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