0-10v dimming 1 switch, 2 breakers

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Hello everyone,
I've been looking around MH for some time and now I have my first post.
I have a job start next week and the lighting is 0-10v controlled.
The problem is (I think) that the plans show 1 dimmer and controlling fixtures from different phased breakers from different panels. All the fixtures are fed un-switched and the Low voltage wire daisy chains from fixture to fixture.
Will there be a issue on the control circuit because of this?

You help would be fantastic.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
the lighting is 0-10v controlled.
The problem is (I think) that the plans show 1 dimmer and controlling fixtures from different phased breakers from different panels. All the fixtures are fed un-switched and the Low voltage wire daisy chains from fixture to fixture.
Will there be a issue on the control circuit because of this?

I have done the same often, it works fine.

This page has some general info.

http://www.kele.com/keleblog/blog/shedding-some-light-on-0-10v-dimmable-lighting-fixtures/
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
It should be possible to control lights on more than one circuit with one dimmer, but you would need a lighting control system.

Or a wall mount 0 to 10 volt dimmer.

If you have not worked with it before the ballast or LED driver will have a purple and gray lead on them in addition to the line voltage connections. You can connect all these purple and gray leads in parallel back to a single dimmer device. We have been installing these systems in pretty much all new construction and lighting retrofit.
 
Or a wall mount 0 to 10 volt dimmer.

If you have not worked with it before the ballast or LED driver will have a purple and gray lead on them in addition to the line voltage connections. You can connect all these purple and gray leads in parallel back to a single dimmer device. We have been installing these systems in pretty much all new construction and lighting retrofit.


Thanks for the reply.

We have used 0-10v dimming before however all the fixtures on the circuit were on the same circuit. In this project we have only on power pack and dimmer feeding many lights , some of which are fed from the emergency panel. My concerns are that 0-10v controls may have issue because some of lights are fed from different power sources. We can always add additional power packs but I want to be absolutely sure before we suggest a change order.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I spend most of my working hours working in large stores, sometimes office space etc.

Anyway when I go in and retrofit a store with LED and dimming we connect all the 0-10 volt control leads together. The fixture branch circuits will come from various panels, phases and even sources, some will be 277 and some will be 120. I have yet to run into any issues using one controller connected to all these different fixtures.

It would be a huge hassle if we had to use different controllers for every phase, source and voltage the fixtures where connected to.
 
I spend most of my working hours working in large stores, sometimes office space etc.

Anyway when I go in and retrofit a store with LED and dimming we connect all the 0-10 volt control leads together. The fixture branch circuits will come from various panels, phases and even sources, some will be 277 and some will be 120. I have yet to run into any issues using one controller connected to all these different fixtures.

It would be a huge hassle if we had to use different controllers for every phase, source and voltage the fixtures where connected to.

Thanks, I do get that part as we have done this type of work before only that we have connected the 0-10v wire together while a single switch leg and the same circuit.

Are you saying that you have only 1 power pack controlling several 0-10v dimming fixtures some fed from different panels and voltages? and all connected to the same 0-10v wire?

Looking at the diagrams that you link to makes me have caution for you connect the same 0-10v wire to fixtures from different sources. I am wondering if you need separate power pack for each different breakered row of fixtures needing to be on the same 0-10v switch.

I know you can link power packs with Cat-5 with some brands such as Nlight to deal with the different circuits. Just want to know if this will be needed.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Hello everyone,
I've been looking around MH for some time and now I have my first post.
I have a job start next week and the lighting is 0-10v controlled.
The problem is (I think) that the plans show 1 dimmer and controlling fixtures from different phased breakers from different panels. All the fixtures are fed un-switched and the Low voltage wire daisy chains from fixture to fixture.
Will there be a issue on the control circuit because of this?

You help would be fantastic.

in so calif., possibly.

answering a question you haven't asked, as you are in california,
where everything is a bit more special than everywhere else,
you have title 24 compliance to deal with.

while you can do a ton of fixtures all fed off different breakers and
phases off a single 0-10 volt control, the lighting controls need to be
certified before you can get a final inspection sign off. they have to be
title 24:2013 compliant, and need to be certified by someone with a
CALCTP-AT certificate, or the equivalent.

you have lighting controls, daylight harvesting, demand response,
and exterior lighting that all require compliance.

this is a statewide requirement, altho some inspectors don't enforce it,
the state is quite capable of enforcing it.

holler if you have any questions.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Are you saying that you have only 1 power pack controlling several 0-10v dimming fixtures some fed from different panels and voltages? and all connected to the same 0-10v wire?

I don't know what a power pack is in this application.

I have one dimmer, tied to one set of 0-10 volt control wires running to fixtures fed from all different panels and sources.

I understand your concern but it works fine.

Now that said I strongly urge you to listen to fullthrottle, he has been dealing with the CA requirements for a long time and would be a great help. Here in MA we do not have anything like a 'Title 24'. (Yet)
 

highlegdelta

Member
Location
US
Another Californian here who works with lighting get controls on every job. I can tell you that the 0-10 portion will work regardless of phase or circuit. But there is more to it than that. To turn it on and off, you will need to have separate controllers/power packs. Otherwise, the most you can do is dim it to the minimum level


I often see our lighting sheets with one switch location routed to a controller that controls a large area. But that is just a generic conceptual drawing. When we bid our job to a controls manufacturer they will design the system with all the controllers you need.
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Thanks everyone.

I just wanted to make sure because because we have two switches per room to make title 24 compliant ( daylight harvesting) and they threw in a generator panel. They want one light in a string that is fed by one power pack to now be powered by the Emergency Generator panel. So therefore you have lights fed from different phases and different panels on the exact same 0-10v power pak.
 

local6

New member
Location
US
I deal with a lot of different lighting systems and can tell you exactly what you need to know to make everything work for you. I've done this exact setup many times.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
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highlegdelta

Member
Location
US
Thanks everyone.

I just wanted to make sure because because we have two switches per room to make title 24 compliant ( daylight harvesting) and they threw in a generator panel. They want one light in a string that is fed by one power pack to now be powered by the Emergency Generator panel. So therefore you have lights fed from different phases and different panels on the exact same 0-10v power pak.
What lighting control system is it

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GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
It is possibly more complicated than that if any of the generator powered lights are being used as egress lighting. If that is the case you will have to override any requested dimming when you go to generator power.
 
What lighting control system is it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

My understanding is it's Lutron. The lighting package is by the Owner. ( My fingers crossed )

It is possibly more complicated than that if any of the generator powered lights are being used as egress lighting. If that is the case you will have to override any requested dimming when you go to generator power.

Why will you need to override the dimmer , It's just a slide dimmer? Please explain as I may not see what you are thinking of.


And to Fullthrotl , The testing is being handled by the GC, Claims he has the guy. My fingers crossed again. The good thing is , If it does not pass not our problem as our contract stated we will build as per plan and it needs to be designed T-24 compliant. We are not fluent enough on the subject and the Owner hired a T-24 expert to spec it all out. Then the owner upgraded for a Geny, Wahoooo.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
My understanding is it's Lutron. The lighting package is by the Owner. ( My fingers crossed )



Why will you need to override the dimmer , It's just a slide dimmer? Please explain as I may not see what you are thinking of.


And to Fullthrotl , The testing is being handled by the GC, Claims he has the guy. My fingers crossed again. The good thing is , If it does not pass not our problem as our contract stated we will build as per plan and it needs to be designed T-24 compliant. We are not fluent enough on the subject and the Owner hired a T-24 expert to spec it all out. Then the owner upgraded for a Geny, Wahoooo.

"I just wanted to make sure because because we have two switches per room to make title 24 compliant ( daylight harvesting)"

fyi, two switches doesn't have anything to do with daylight harvesting.... this isn't A/B switching.

over 100 sq. ft. or over 1/2" watt per square ft. you need to have dimming, and an occ. sensor
under 100 sq. ft. you need an occ. sensor only.
over 120 watts in primary daylighting area requires daylight harvesting, otherwise no daylighting needed.
over 10,000 sq. ft. needs demand response capability for the entire lighting load.

if you want very little grief, i'm going to suggest you get the contact information of the
acceptance technician will be actually performing the certification, and speak to him
BEFORE YOU BEGIN THE WORK.
having an approved set of drawings, does not
guarantee job certification at the end of the job.
as you've excluded the lighting package, and certification from your scope of work,
let me share with you that if the project craters, and cannot be certified, and has
to be re engineered and redone, it's really freaking hard to get paid by an owner
who thought he was really clever putting together his lighting plan.

i've been doing the acceptance testing thing for going on two years now, and i've seen
some pretty amazing stuff. the last thing you need to see is amazing stuff, especially
if it hangs up occupancy of the finished building for six weeks, while everything is redone.

get acquainted with the PITA who has to sign off your job, and hang on to that number
if you work well with him. you might need it a bunch in the months ahead.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
I spend most of my working hours working in large stores, sometimes office space etc.

Anyway when I go in and retrofit a store with LED and dimming we connect all the 0-10 volt control leads together. The fixture branch circuits will come from various panels, phases and even sources, some will be 277 and some will be 120. I have yet to run into any issues using one controller connected to all these different fixtures.

It would be a huge hassle if we had to use different controllers for every phase, source and voltage the fixtures where connected to.

the main thing, obviously, is that the source for power for the lighting
control system be something that doesn't get turned off. having the
graphic eye controller or nLight gateway turned off causes the occupant
of the building to begin sending huge levels of emails here, there, and
everywhere, wanting to know why nothing works any more.

general orneryness results, imho.
 
the main thing, obviously, is that the source for power for the lighting
control system be something that doesn't get turned off. having the
graphic eye controller or nLight gateway turned off causes the occupant
of the building to begin sending huge levels of emails here, there, and
everywhere, wanting to know why nothing works any more.

general orneryness results, imho.

One switch controls the Dayligting with a photocell.
The other switch controls lights outside the daylight zone.
As long as the power pack is powered from the geny then things should be ok. right?

Heck it's T-bar , if the owners agent screwed up then it's a change order. That was the deal in writing.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Why will you need to override the dimmer , It's just a slide dimmer? Please explain as I may not see what you are thinking of.

If the lighting supplied by the generator is required egress lighting the code requires the lights to turn on automatically during a power failure regardless of any switches or dimmers.
 
If the lighting supplied by the generator is required egress lighting the code requires the lights to turn on automatically during a power failure regardless of any switches or dimmers.

Thanks,
From what I can tell is the amount of lights running on the geny are much more than required for egress. It is so they can continue work during a power outage. They don't want to have to stop work at all.
 
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