Kitchen Coutertop Branch Circuit NEC Requirements for 230 Volts

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iwire

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Read what it says. :) Under the Philippine Electrical Code you are legally allowed to have 230 volts for equipment under 1440 va in a dwelling.

Two issues I have

1) The OP is talking about the NEC.

2) No matter how often I read what you posted I see 230 volt circuits prohibited from supplying loads under 1440 VA
 

mbrooke

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Two issues I have

1) The OP is talking about the NEC.

That is true, but its not the correct code to be using regardless. First what the OP proposes is forbidden by the NEC; second designing a 230 volt system for a dwelling around the NEC is not as safe. Codes that permit 230 volts as a utilization voltage take that into. For example, while the PEL is based on the NEC, it is specifically re-written so rules/requirements consider the added risks associated with 230 volts.



2) No matter how often I read what you posted I see 230 volt circuits prohibited from supplying loads under 1440 VA

:blink::blink::?:blink:

Can you type out what I posted?
 
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iwire

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Location
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That is true, but its not the correct code to be using regardless. First what the OP proposes is forbidden by the NEC; second designing a 230 volt system for a dwelling around the NEC is not as safe. Codes that permit 230 volts as a utilization voltage take that into. For example, while the PEL is based on the NEC, it is specifically re-written so rules/requirements consider the added risks associated with 230 volts.





:blink::blink::?:blink:

Can you type out what I posted?

It is the OPs thread about the NEC. Forget about other codes.

Yes I could but you would still be mistaken.
 

mbrooke

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It is the OPs thread about the NEC. Forget about other codes.

I know, but going by the NEC for this project is not correct especially when the OP is forced to ditch 230 volt receptacles if loads under 1440 va are to be plugged in. Being Saudi Arabia, 7 watt 230 volt night lights can be purchased at any drug store.



Yes I could but you would still be mistaken.


Then prove me wrong :D:D:thumbsup:
 

iwire

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I know, but going by the NEC for this project is not correct especially when the OP is forced to ditch 230 volt receptacles if loads under 1440 va are to be plugged in. Being Saudi Arabia, 7 watt 230 volt night lights can be purchased at any drug store.






Then prove me wrong :D:D:thumbsup:

When the OP asks for other codes you will be number 1. Untill then please stick with the OP. :)



The code section you posted does it for me. :thumbsup:
 

mbrooke

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When the OP asks for other codes you will be number 1. Untill then please stick with the OP. :)

And my response to the OP is that you can not have 230 volt receptacles in that kitchen, either that all 230 volt appliances under 1440 VA need to be outlawed first if going by the NEC. Thus the contractor is correct and the project specs are wrong.


The code section you posted does it for me. :thumbsup:

Where in the code section which I posted (PEL) does it say you can not have 230 volts for equipment under 1440 va. Please show me. Till then I will stand behind what I originally said going as far as claiming you know it says the same thing but don't want to admit it.
 
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iwire

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Location
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And my response to the OP is that you can not have 230 volt receptacles in that kitchen, either that all 230 volt appliances under 1440 VA need to be outlawed first if going by the NEC.


:?:?:?:?


Where in the code section which I posted (PEL) does it say you can not have 230 volts for equipment under 1440 va. Please show me. Till then I will stand behind what I originally said going as far as claiming you know it says the same thing but don't want to admit it.

2014 NEC 210.6 which is the code this thread is about. :p

I was wrong about the PEL but the PEL does not apply to this job so its irrelevant. :lol:
 

mbrooke

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I was wrong about the PEL but the PEL does not apply to this job so its irrelevant. :lol:

So you finally read it? :D And it says that 230 volts is allowed for equipment under 1440va?



My point about about bringing up other codes like PEL, is that when dealing with 230 volts the NEC is not really the place to look. For example, even if the NEC let you use 230 volts, you could legally skip GFCI requirements. The last place where you would want missing GFCI protection is on a 230 volt receptacle.

I know the OP asked about the NEC, but its not what should be used.
 

iwire

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Location
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So you finally read it? :D And it says that 230 volts is allowed for equipment under 1440va?

I have been reading it all along, just not 'seeing it' on my droid.

Now I am home reading it on a big screen and it was clear, you where right and I was wrong about the PEL.

My point about about bringing up other codes like PEL,

And my point as a mod is please try to contain your drifting of topics. :)

It was clear by post 2 that using the NEC was a poor choice, yet the OP is stuck with it. Its going to take an extra paid to the contractor to either just provide what they now want or to change codes mid job.
 

mbrooke

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Technician
I have been reading it all along, just not 'seeing it' on my droid.

Now I am home reading it on a big screen and it was clear, you where right and I was wrong about the PEL.

Ok, thank you for being direct and honest on this. :):)

My apologies for not doing a direct copy and paste.



And my point as a mod is please try to contain your drifting of topics. :)

It was clear by post 2 that using the NEC was a poor choice, yet the OP is stuck with it. Its going to take an extra paid to the contractor to either just provide what they now want or to change codes mid job.

Of course, but there is not harm in giving the OP extra encouragement to change. Some items like adding GFCIs are not hard to change after the fact, which fortunately the OP may have done that. I say may because I would not go over 30ma differential.
 
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