Warm GFCI Receptacles...

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1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
I was called in today to take a look at some GFCI receptacles that the HO said were hot. When I arrived I noticed that there were 5 GFCI receptacles in various parts of the house that were indeed warm to the touch.

Two of the receptacles were in the Kitchen and they were Load Sided. Nothing had been plugged in.

Two were serving Bathrooms again Load Sided and no load.

One in the basement Bathroom

There is a GFCI receptacle in the Garage, Load Sided, and it appeared to be just fine no heat.

The Home is 9 yrs old and these were new to the house.

There is no issue with box fill in any of these GFCIs

I hope someone can shed some light on this issue.

Thanks
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Do the GFCIs have indicator lights on them, or transformers for USB plugs? that could be the source of the heat. I'm guessing the 4 warm ones were not on the same circuit, so a 'hidden load' is probably not the culprit. Were the terminations tight with no insulation under the pressure plates?
 

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
Do the GFCIs have indicator lights on them, or transformers for USB plugs? that could be the source of the heat. I'm guessing the 4 warm ones were not on the same circuit, so a 'hidden load' is probably not the culprit. Were the terminations tight with no insulation under the pressure plates?

No indicator lights
No USB
All on separate circuits
No Insulation under plates & terminations tight
 

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
I'm wondering how warm was "indeed warm to the touch"

They were indeed quite warm. I can't think that I had ever felt a GFCI receptacle that was warmer than a std. receptacle, unless it was going bad and then it was always the back of the GFCI that I noticed was warm.

I'll have to check some other GFCIs in a SFD to see if they are warm. I don't have any GFCIs in my house except for the Garage and the temp. out there is much cooler than inside.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I'm wondering how warm was "indeed warm to the touch"

+1

You need the metrics. If you can temp probe the receptacle and the surrounding ambient, you'll have more information to deal with. I'm sure there's some acceptable rise over ambient.

And if you're saying it's warm relative to something else, what is that something else?
Ceramic tile for example will conduct heat from your skin more rapidly than drywall. Is there drywall in the garage and tile in the kitchen and baths?

A call to the manufacturer once you have this information may help as well. Most people don't realize how eager many manufacturers are to hear from people in the field. There are entire departments to handle inquiries and even referrals to engineering when indicated. If you are seeing something or believing you are seeing something, there's a good chance others are too; just like asking that question in school when the professor answers it and the whole class responds "Oh, so that's how it ..."

edit: Post #10 was not there when I started typing this. I see you're already addressing the comparative.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
No indicator lights
No USB
All on separate circuits
No Insulation under plates & terminations tight
Looking a little wider afield, is there the possibility of an overvoltage condition (lightning strike nearby, downed primary lines, etc.)?
Were the warm GFCIs noticed over months or hours?
Did you measure the bus voltage, and was it nominal?
Are the "separate circuits" by chance on the same bus? (again thinking about a transient overvoltage condition stressing, yet not blowing, the GFCI micro-circuitry.
Is the manufacturer a national name brand or are these the cheapest possible type?
For that matter, are the hot GFCIs all the same, or different, manufacturer?
You said, "The Home is 9 yrs old and these were new to the house." Did this mean the GFCIs had just been replaced, or that they were new, with the house, and were also 9 years old?
 

FullDuplex

Member
Location
Massachusetts
I just checked 5 in my home with an infrared thermometer - 3 with indicator LEDs, 2 without - and none with current load on it or downstream. It's hard to get an exact reading, but they were all approximately 4 degrees F warmer than the surroundings. The only USB receptacle I have showed no measurable temperature difference.
 

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
Looking a little wider afield, is there the possibility of an overvoltage condition (lightning strike nearby, downed primary lines, etc.)?
Were the warm GFCIs noticed over months or hours?
Did you measure the bus voltage, and was it nominal?
Are the "separate circuits" by chance on the same bus? (again thinking about a transient overvoltage condition stressing, yet not blowing, the GFCI micro-circuitry.
Is the manufacturer a national name brand or are these the cheapest possible type?
For that matter, are the hot GFCIs all the same, or different, manufacturer?
You said, "The Home is 9 yrs old and these were new to the house." Did this mean the GFCIs had just been replaced, or that they were new, with the house, and were also 9 years old?

I did not think nor would I have taken the time to check for overvoltage and or weather they were on the same buss, good thought. I wanted to get some ideas before I tear off and spend more time than necessary

GFCIs were installed when the house was built and they were the same mafg.

I just checked 5 in my home with an infrared thermometer - 3 with indicator LEDs, 2 without - and none with current load on it or downstream. It's hard to get an exact reading, but they were all approximately 4 degrees F warmer than the surroundings. The only USB receptacle I have showed no measurable temperature difference.

Cool, no pun intended, for checking that out. I'm sure I'll get back out to look at this when I do some other work. I'll check them with my infrared thermometer, again good thought, thanks.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sorry kwired I goofed up and screwed up this post of yours.

I meant to quote you but hit the edit button instead. (They are side by side for mods)
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I do IR scanning for the company I work for, they have a pretty high end IR cam it was about $45K when they bought a some time ago.

Anyway I often end up pointing it all around seeing what I can identify and GFCI outlets stand out like a sore thumb due to the heating from the electronics. However they are typically only a few degrees hotter than the wall temperature.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I do IR scanning for the company I work for, they have a pretty high end IR cam it was about $45K when they bought a some time ago.

Anyway I often end up pointing it all around seeing what I can identify and GFCI outlets stand out like a sore thumb due to the heating from the electronics. However they are typically only a few degrees hotter than the wall temperature.
I don't doubt it, I also am assuming OP's situation was significantly warmer then the wall temp and was a result of whatever load was being supplied and not so much just the electronics in the device.

They don't seem to produce enough heat when in outdoor installations to prevent condensation from just the heat produced in the electronics from my experiences anyway.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sorry kwired I goofed up and screwed up this post of yours.

I meant to quote you but hit the edit button instead. (They are side by side for mods)

IIRC main thing that I didn't already hit somewhat again a few posts later was that either the conductor terminations could be weak and producing heat or even the internal contacts that interrupt the protected portion of the circuit could be weak (or even overloaded) and producing heat.
 

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
Update...

Update...

I received a call today from the fellow that asked me to investigate the warm GFCIs. He told me everything appeared to be fine with the new GFCIs.

I'm not sure when I'll get back to the house again to check for myself, the other work they were interested in has been put on the back burner for now.

Thanks to all who posted.
 
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