NC May do away with Arc Faults Changes

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Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is an article from the News and Observer on the arc fault story.
I find the story to be totally inaccurate where they talk about arc faults only adding $60-100 to the price of a new home. Where did they get that data from?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Both sides have poor sounding arguments. House only needs 2 or 3?

I agree and I am not sure where I stand on this issue. I just roughed in my first house that will fall entirely under the 2008 - arc fault changes came into effect here on Jan, 1, 2009. I roped it the best I could to eliminate arc faults where possible. Kitchen lights, laundry etc all kept separate. We'll see how it goes.
 

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
Will this totally repeal the requirement or just from the vote date forward, if it passes. I have already had problems on recent upgrades that I would like to see go away.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I really have very little expierence with this issue. I was hired by one GC to monitor the voltage at one house due to excessive nussiance tripping, halfway through he called me and told me the manufacture (who originally told him it was a PQ issue) had admitted a defect in the AFCI CBs and was going to replace them.

To me the basis behind the product seems more than resonable. I would (and will) install them in my house. Not sure when.

My only real issue was IF/DID the manufactures push these in too fast, not caring if they had a possibly defective/not fully operational product?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Will this totally repeal the requirement or just from the vote date forward, if it passes. I have already had problems on recent upgrades that I would like to see go away.


I guess if it passes, and that's a big IF, then I am not sure what that means for permits taken out during the interim.

Here is some info passed on to me.

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Dennis check out this information from the NFPA website. Just click on the links.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PDF/Homesfactsheet.pdf

http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?...esearch/Fire statistics/The U.S. fire problem



399,000 Dwelling Fires per year and only 6% of these are electrical related. That means that only 23,940 of the 399,000 are electrical rated.
Only 4% of fires happen in dens, living room, family room, and dinning rooms. That means that there are only 958 electrical fires in these rooms per year(23,940 X 4% = 958). Only 8% of fires happen in bedrooms (23,940 X 8% = 1915) per year. These are fact from NFPA not mine. I only did the math.
 

bmwnut

Member
Location
O-H-I-O
ban AFCI breakers

ban AFCI breakers

I have wired six houses and have had at least one AFCI breaker per job give me problems. Some the supply house replaced for a "newer version" some I just changed and ate the $40.00 on. Just build that into the cost of the job now. Two service calls and a $40.00 breaker on top. the gc wanted to know why my price went up again, not working for free .
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
"If you ask people, the consumer, do they want a safe home for 60 bucks or 100 bucks extra, overwhelmingly the answer is yes," Reitterer said. :rolleyes:

After most people shop for a house they start downsizing their expectations to meet their finances. It isn't $100 bucks more for safety - it's leave the front lawn a mud pit cause I can't afford the grass anymore cause I got to pay for the AFCIs, TRs, and whatever other new safety device I'm required to have.

The phrase is "Getting nickeled and dimed to death."
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Just took over another contractors job because he went to jail breaking probation, (which is another story!) Arc faults tripping everywhere, each bedroom had two circuits each! Part of the bedroom would be on Arc fault, but the other part not. Tracked down neutral to ground short between two recptacles on the same wall. Put a battery with a Amprobe Current Tracer on it, cut a 4"x4" hole in the wall where it indicated the short was, and found the insulators shot a staple in the romex, went through sideways and shorted the neutral and ground together. If it had went the other way, the fault current would probably cleared the thin staple wire, but could have continued to arc. If the Arc fault breaker works as per the manufacture claims, it would have prevented a fire. That being said, I've seen a lot of demonstrations where the product did not work. if they can ever get the technoloy right, it could be a good investment.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
"If you ask people, the consumer, do they want a safe home for 60 bucks or 100 bucks extra, overwhelmingly the answer is yes," Reitterer said. :rolleyes:

After most people shop for a house they start downsizing their expectations to meet their finances. It isn't $100 bucks more for safety - it's leave the front lawn a mud pit cause I can't afford the grass anymore cause I got to pay for the AFCIs, TRs, and whatever other new safety device I'm required to have.

The phrase is "Getting nickeled and dimed to death."


You know Indiana did away with AFCi's in "2002" and it doesent look like they will return in the "2009" IRC/IEC either
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
. . . . halfway through he called me and told me the manufacture (who originally told him it was a PQ issue) had admitted a defect in the AFCI CBs and was going to replace them.

Care to mention the brand?




I've yet to have a problem w/ an AFCI; including the new combination series. The only ones i've used are Square D. They did have a recall a few years ago, but it was because they wouldn't trip.




The News&Observer said:
Current building codes require protections to keep a nail from nicking a wire and other precautions, Nixon said.

I thought the concern was more about what homeowners might do after the house is complete; you know, the people that don't know the codes.
 
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ericsherman37

Senior Member
Location
Oregon Coast
In the 2005 NEC cycle, Oregon adopted those arc fault requirements. But in the 2008 cycle, Oregon excluded the new requirements and kept the 2005 arc fault requirements.

I think the rationale was something along the lines of lack of widespread availability of the materials and such. Kind of a cheap excuse if you ask me, but whatever.

I think that come 2011 Oregon will probably get back on track and adopt whatever arc fault requirements are included in that cycle, with maybe some minor modifications.

Here's a link to the Oregon Electrical Specialty Code (modifications, additions, and repeals of the NEC) if anyone is interested in scanning it over. The Oregon code supersedes the NEC in the state. I have a copy of the Oregon code at the front of my NEC book and went through the NEC and put a star next to every section that was modified by the Oregon code.

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/rules/OARS_900/OAR_918/918_305.html
 
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