Handyman doing electrical work.

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growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
You knew an unlicensed person was there doing work and you didn?t report it to anyone? We?ll sue your insurance company.


I don't think there is much chance of that I just hate to see a handyman cut cost by working illegally. Sure the prices of a legitimate EC are going to appear high in comparison. Once you add the cost of a permit and insurance and taxes to money earned.

It really burns me up that the only way to compete with these people would be to break the law yourself. Sure you could work cheaper for cash under the table and ship the insurance and permits but this would put you at risk and it's not right that a person is forced to break the law just to make a living.

If you have two liquor stores and one is selling bonded and taxed booze and the other is selling hooch make in the bath tub their prices will be cheaper. It's the same with handymen they often sell bootleged work.

In this country you are allowed to make your own booze and drink it yourself and you are allowed to do work at your own home but you are not allowed to run an illegal business and sell your goods or services under the table.
 

satcom

Senior Member
don_resqcapt19, I couldn't cite a court case and that's always been one of those "they say" type of things. I did contact three ins. companies; Hartford said that they wouldn't pay, State Farm and Farm Family kind of wiggled around and said, "depends on how the policy was written", etc. My feeling is that it?s their way of saying they would pay as long as it wasn't blatant. To sum it up:
HO policy; HO does work and screws up, their ins. company pays.
My policy; I screw up (on a job) and my ins. company pays.
Hack policy; hack screws up? see rule 1. So why do I need insurance?
We live in a litigious society, it?s some peoples first impulse; little Sally got her feelings hurt playing tag in the schoolyard? Sue the school. You knew an unlicensed person was there doing work and you didn?t report it to anyone? We?ll sue your insurance company. We may not get the full amount from them, but it?s more than we?d get from the hack. Perhaps I?m being paranoid or lawyers have left a bad taste in my mouth?

When it comes to handyman or for that matter anyone diong work where permits and inspections are required by law, there can be many problems, it will depend on the coverages the customer has, and the coverages the handyman has, if any, not all insurance companes write the same contracts, some have clauses that require all permits and inspections must be secured, and even then if there was a loss, the outcomes will differ, but myself I would never put the largest investment of my life my home and risk it, I din't have to see policies or court papers, to know the risk, my homeowners policy is one with the clause in it, but your not a policeman, and if the homeowner wants to risk loss or problems it's not your business, they are adults, just worry about the work your doing.
 

rodneee

Senior Member
chris 1971
was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor?? of course not. its not over til you say its over. just because he says he wants to use a handyman for the other work does not mean he will. this is a two part job. the electrical part will be a breeze as i am sure you are quite capable. the sales aspect might be a little more difficult! put on your salesman gameface and use your god given talent as a professional businessman to guide this lost and uninformed cheapskate homeowner away from his fire ee path (no pun intended) leading to a low budget "hack" remodel job. may the force be with you.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
chris 1971
was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor?? of course not. its not over til you say its over. just because he says he wants to use a handyman for the other work does not mean he will. this is a two part job. the electrical part will be a breeze as i am sure you are quite capable. the sales aspect might be a little more difficult! put on your salesman gameface and use your god given talent as a professional businessman to guide this lost and uninformed cheapskate homeowner away from his fire ee path (no pun intended) leading to a low budget "hack" remodel job. may the force be with you.


Man, all this time and I only knew about the other Pearl Harbor , you know, the one the Japanese bombed on Dec 7, 1941.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Man, all this time and I only knew about the other Pearl Harbor , you know, the one the Japanese bombed on Dec 7, 1941.

How quicky we forget one of the greatest movies of all times, "Animal House". John Belushi was giving a pep talk to the guys and uses the bombing of pearl harbor by the Germans as an example. His knowledge of history wasn't very good but the meaning was clear, "It's not over until we say it's over". :grin::grin:
 

chris1971

Senior Member
Location
Usa
The latest

The latest

I had the inspection for the service upgrade and noted on my inspection form the work I did for the homeowner. I waited for the inspector to show up today and I pointed out the work that I did not perform. The inspector made some notes and he will be contacting the homeowner about the work that was performed by the handyman.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I had the inspection for the service upgrade and noted on my inspection form the work I did for the homeowner. I waited for the inspector to show up today and I pointed out the work that I did not perform. The inspector made some notes and he will be contacting the homeowner about the work that was performed by the handyman.

Which I'm sure will include a new 20 amp circuit run from the bathroom remodel to the new service.:roll:
 

Kdog76

Senior Member
I vote A & C. B is going to do what he wants, as long as it saves him a $ now not later.

Ditto here folks. How many here like getting a slap in the face like that being told "He can do it cheaper" ? Oh and by the way he's not licensed or insured. I'd tell him AND his buddy to watch out.

I go through this a lot. In fact, happened again just last week. I couldn't get there same day and I called the next day to find he already found someone else. This WAS a loyal customer I've had for about 3 years. Loyality? Forget about it.:mad:

I let him (the owner) know that truth be told the local inspection department is getting VERY hard up for revenue, and they are not shy about issuing fines for unlicensed electrical work. I let him know point blank he better watch out both for the inspectors (i.e. maybe one could just show up?) & that Mr. Handyman BETTER have liability on the job cause he ain't gonna replace the house that he could just burn down. I just told him watch it, and let's get paid on this last bill you owe me...:mad: I put a little fire under a$$...

I'll sit back, file a lien so I do get paid, and watch him dig his own hole...

I don't deal with losers anymore...
 

Kdog76

Senior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceb58 View Post
I vote A & C. B is going to do what he wants, as long as it saves him a $ now not later.


Um, I think I meant B and possibly C.. As for as A: the State's not going to do any good here...I'm not out to get anybody here. I don't turn anybody in, but I do give a pretty good warning...
 

satcom

Senior Member
Funny but over the last few years the area EC's are turning in every trunk slammer, handyman, and part time unlicensed electrician they can catch, it's to the point they where they may show up in packs, just to nail a guy operating illegal, leaving the consumer with inspections, and taking the food off the ligit EC's table. I was a long time comming.
 

wawireguy

Senior Member
I'd just make sure my permit was for the work I did. If the homeowner knows about the unpermited and unskilled work I'd let it go. All you are going to acccomplish is pissing off the home owner and the general. You aren't going to get any references or a call back to fix that bathroom later by poking your nose into this. If your competition is a handyman doing unpermited work you should rethink your business strategy.
 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
...:mad: I put a little fire under a$$...

I'll sit back, file a lien so I do get paid, and watch him dig his own hole...

I don't deal with losers anymore...
The little fire you see is from your bridges being burned. If I was your ex-customer, your unprofessionalism would prompt me to do everything in my power to black-list you from every friend, acquaintance, and contractor I knew. In this age of electronic networking and blogging, your 30 seconds of satisfaction could very well cost you much more.

The majority of the responses to this thread, and the many like it, leave me ashamed to be even remotely associated with this industry. And you guys wonder why so much bootleg work is being done? It is not always for cost.
 

e57

Senior Member
I think I would be absolutely clear with your customer about your liability and how you will handle it with the inspector for YOUR scope of work, and that you want YOUR scope of work closed out with the city/AHJ. If for anything else - to reduce chances of returning inspectors for two seperate scopes and therefore two seperate levels of liabilty and risk to him/her... Since they are two seperate permits, and costs as well in most cases.

Then when the inspector shows up - I tell them in private I want them to be clear on scope of work, and to close the permit ASAP, if they ask why - I just say, I get the feeling that the HO 'may or may not' have some other scope planned to be done by some 'low ball Louie' and I want to protect myself if any silliness happens after I'm gone... They usually get the message...
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
The little fire you see is from your bridges being burned. If I was your ex-customer, your unprofessionalism would prompt me to do everything in my power to black-list you from every friend, acquaintance, and contractor I knew. In this age of electronic networking and blogging, your 30 seconds of satisfaction could very well cost you much more.

The majority of the responses to this thread, and the many like it, leave me ashamed to be even remotely associated with this industry. And you guys wonder why so much bootleg work is being done? It is not always for cost.

Unprofessional by helping to police the trade huh? The less a profession polices itself the more a government will decide it has to. It always seems someone that wants something for free crys about unprofessional if they don't get it. I've had someone once tell me they were going to blacklist me and ended up working in the very same house after they sold it.

I just say ok when someone tells me they are going to tell everyone they know not to use me. I'm not concerned with working for anyone like them anyway. The last time I heard that was a Saturday when someone had me come out the same day to replace 2 counter top GFI's and troubleshoot a porch outlet.

They said $75 was more than enough for that and I could take it or leave it. I opted to leave it and she was very upset about it and told me she was going to post all over the internet not to use me. I said ok and left. She actually called me again when I was driving down the road to complain further and kept telling me how unprofessional I was. I explained to her that to be professional would be to have the expectation of making a decent amount of money.

I'm sure I research myself more than anyone and never see evidence of their posts. Most people don't remember who they had working in there house as soon as the door closes behind them. We try to remind them by sending out thank you letters with a customer satisfaction survey and occasional postcards. This also keeps our customer list fresh. 75% of our work last month was return customers.
 

satcom

Senior Member
Unprofessional by helping to police the trade huh? The less a profession polices itself the more a government will decide it has to. It always seems someone that wants something for free crys about unprofessional if they don't get it. I've had someone once tell me they were going to blacklist me and ended up working in the very same house after they sold it.

I just say ok when someone tells me they are going to tell everyone they know not to use me. I'm not concerned with working for anyone like them anyway. The last time I heard that was a Saturday when someone had me come out the same day to replace 2 counter top GFI's and troubleshoot a porch outlet.

They said $75 was more than enough for that and I could take it or leave it. I opted to leave it and she was very upset about it and told me she was going to post all over the internet not to use me. I said ok and left. She actually called me again when I was driving down the road to complain further and kept telling me how unprofessional I was. I explained to her that to be professional would be to have the expectation of making a decent amount of money.

I'm sure I research myself more than anyone and never see evidence of their posts. Most people don't remember who they had working in there house as soon as the door closes behind them. We try to remind them by sending out thank you letters with a customer satisfaction survey and occasional postcards. This also keeps our customer list fresh. 75% of our work last month was return customers.

I wonder if Rick values his PE license, and if he would police his profession, both PE's and EC's work hard to earn the right to conduct a ligt business, and we are both responsible to assure customer safety, and helping police the industries, is part of that.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
The little fire you see is from your bridges being burned. If I was your ex-customer, your unprofessionalism would prompt me to do everything in my power to black-list you from every friend, acquaintance, and contractor I knew. In this age of electronic networking and blogging, your 30 seconds of satisfaction could very well cost you much more.

The majority of the responses to this thread, and the many like it, leave me ashamed to be even remotely associated with this industry. And you guys wonder why so much bootleg work is being done? It is not always for cost.

I really don't understand your comment, Kdog does have a legal right to report this code violation so that's not unprofessional.

Now if a homeowner wants to take revenge against a contractor that reported unlicensed work that's normally refered to as slander and there are laws against that to. It's not a good idea to ever try to black list anyone because if they find out about you can be in trouble.

I never black list a company I just give someone else as a recommendation.
 

powerslave

Senior Member
Location
Land of Lincoln
The little fire you see is from your bridges being burned. If I was your ex-customer, your unprofessionalism would prompt me to do everything in my power to black-list you from every friend, acquaintance, and contractor I knew. In this age of electronic networking and blogging, your 30 seconds of satisfaction could very well cost you much more.

The majority of the responses to this thread, and the many like it, leave me ashamed to be even remotely associated with this industry. And you guys wonder why so much bootleg work is being done? It is not always for cost.

I have no problem with informing a homeowner that he is breaking the law by hiring an unlicensed uninsured electrical installer without a permit. And I will call the building department and turn them in. Remember, this is how we make a living.
 

satcom

Senior Member
I have no problem with informing a homeowner that he is breaking the law by hiring an unlicensed uninsured electrical installer without a permit. And I will call the building department and turn them in. Remember, this is how we make a living.

I just can't understand how a professional engineer can say it is unprofessional to follow the public safery laws, his license should be up for review.
 
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