210.52(D) Bathrooms

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Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Well, I am ready for my first proposal but I want input on the wording before I submit it. Please let me know what you think but I am a sensitive guy so be nice. :grin:
The underscore is the new wording and the strikethru is the deleted language.
210.52(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop, located on the countertop, or installed on the side or face of the basin cabinet. In no case shall the receptacle be located more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop height. Receptacle outlet assemblies listed for the application shall be permitted to be installed in the countertop.
Informational note is untouched

Here is my substantiation
The wording as it is now will allow a receptacle to be placed near the floor level on a wall adjacent to the sink. If we are given a minimum height below the countertop on a cabinet then we should be consistent and expect the minimum height below the countertop to be carried thru in all situations.
 
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electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I don't know what the issue is with the current wording.
What's the issue you are addressing?





In no case shall the receptacle be located not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop height

This is too wordy IMO. Remove the not
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't know what the issue is with the current wording.
What's the issue you are addressing?

Scott, I am trying to make it a violation to install an outlet on a wall lower than 12" below the countertop. If it is not compliant for a base cabinet then it should not be compliant for the receptacle to be placed below 12" on the wall.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
In a kitchen I understand it is so a child will be less likely to reach the cord of a hot fryer, etc...
In a bath vanity or wall I'm not clear on the reasoning of the current or proposal.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Scott, I am trying to make it a violation to install an outlet on a wall lower than 12" below the countertop. If it is not compliant for a base cabinet then it should not be compliant for the receptacle to be placed below 12" on the wall.

Why?? :confused:

I assume you are referring to a kitchen base cabinet? Quite different than a bathroom environment.

There is already a requirement for the receptacle to be installed within 36" of the sink. That's good enough for me.
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Well, I am ready for my first proposal but I want input on the wording before I submit it. Please let me know what you think but I am a sensitive guy so be nice. :grin:
The underscore is the new wording and the strikethru is the deleted language.
Informational note is untouched

Here is my substantiation

I think it looks good:)

It would be nice to have all receptacles at the same hight as switches:grin:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Why?? :confused:

I assume you are referring to a kitchen base cabinet? Quite different than a bathroom environment.

There is already a requirement for the receptacle to be installed within 36" of the sink. That's good enough for me.

Scott the wording for a bathroom recep. states we can put one within 36" of a sink. This means if the sink is a pedestal it can be on the wall 10" off the floor. However, if there is a cabinet for the bathroom sink and it is mounted in the cabinet it cannot be more than 12" below. I think for consistency the outlet on the wall should not be allowed lower than 12" either.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Dennis
What is the issue with installing the receptacle on the wall/partition as long as it is within 36 inches of the sink?
All I am saying is the NEC now req. that the recep, be located no lower than 12" below the counter if it is installed in the cabinet yet it will allow the recep. to be installed 25" or more down from the top of the counter if it is in an adjacent wall. WHY?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Maybe I should ask everyone why there is a 12" limit from the countertop when installed in a cabinet? Then why is there not the same limit on the wall?
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
I see what you're getting at, and I agree. How about this (messing with the 2008):

In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop, or installed on the side or face of the basin cabinet. The receptacle shall not be installled more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop top of the basin.
Red = deleted
Green = Added

If it is a pedestal sink, then there is no countertop, so you're inadvertently unmaking your case.

The "in no case" language does not appear in the code, it is redundant - stick to the formulas dictated to us by 90.5.

The word "height" is redundant in the sentence, IMO.

I think it's a good idea. :)
 
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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I see what you're getting at, and I agree. How about this (messing with the 2008):

Red = deleted
Green = Added

If it is a pedestal sink, then there is no countertop, so you're inadvertently unmaking your case.

The "in no case" language does not appear in the code, it is redundant - stick to the formulas dictated to us by 90.5.

The word "height" is redundant in the sentence, IMO.

I think it's a good idea. :)
Thank you George. That was what I was looking for. I agree, the use of countertop is not good. I will change it to the top of the basin. Thanks again.

Anyone else see problems.
 
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