Best AFCI breakers

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peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Everyone knows I hate AFCI's. But which ones are the least prone to nuisance tripping. I've had a lot of problems with Square D Homeline.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The ones we were using 30 years ago worked great:D

They were universal and listed for use in any panel, even a fuse panel.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The reason ge is has the least issue, imo, is because the gfp is taken out of it. I wonder if most faults are ground fault and not arc fault hence the trouble with tripping with other brands.
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
The reason ge is has the least issue, imo, is because the gfp is taken out of it. I wonder if most faults are ground fault and not arc fault hence the trouble with tripping with other brands.

I won't argue, but GFCI breakers and receptacles have been around a good while and even in older installations, show far fewer issues than combined AFCI/GFCI. And MOST of the time, issues with GFCI are real and determinable.

Interaction, perhaps, but omission doesn't seem logical.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I'll take a 30 year old electrical system any day of the week over the junk we have now. :happyyes:

I empathize with your yearning. In my working area the regulatory reality allows nothing but the 2017 NEC, as written and un-modified, to be used to do an approvable installation. 2002 thru 2017. Many here have pushed back against the regulators. . . sigh.

You bringing up a 30 yr old system, to me, brings up a very important strength of the GE single pole combination-type AFCI (CAFCI). Multiwire branch circuits can be protected with two single pole CAFCIs that are "handle-tied." For that matter, on a multiwire, I can handle-tie a plain old breaker and a CAFCI.

More than the rock solid minimum of nuisance trips, the GE CAFCI is the most versatile, way above and beyond anybody else's AFCI.
 
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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The reason ge is has the least issue, imo, is because the gfp is taken out of it. I wonder if most faults are ground fault and not arc fault hence the trouble with tripping with other brands.
I think a lot of the trouble is ground faults, but faults that still need correcting, they just don't get noticed until someone puts in a device that responds to the condition. Every AFCI trip problem I was faced with solving so far has been damaged NM cable and a neutral to ground fault or something wrong with a plugged in item. These are faults we have occasionally had for years but never notice them unless they were on a GFCI protected circuit.

I haven't had the AFCI trip issue yet that is result of a incompatible appliance with AFCI - but I'm sure it happens and I probably will run into it someday.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I haven't had the AFCI trip issue yet that is result of a incompatible appliance with AFCI - but I'm sure it happens and I probably will run into it someday.
I had a kitchen reset that required the service center to be upgraded, and the homerun modification of all the legacy branch circuits in a late-1940s rambler. The kitchen required the structural alteration of the original wiring path for all the homeruns of the dwelling legacy branch circuits. With trepidation I placed these otherwise-untouched legacy branch circuits on GE CAFCI and waited for any tripping behavior.

Nothing happened.

Then, after the job was done, about two months, the homeowner decided to change out the last of his lightbulbs (plain old incandescent) in all the cord and plug fixtures. When he tried to run a new non-dimmable CFL in a floor lamp with a built-in incandescent-only knob dimmer, he'd trip the GE CAFCI breaker.

He called me about the "bad breaker" that kept tripping. He didn't even know if it was an AFCI, just that it "shuts everything off".

It took playing 20 questions with him before he associated the need for a "dimmable CFL" as the fix for a electrically noisy interaction with the floor lamp dimmer caused by a grocery store non-dimmable CFL, and, after reluctantly trying the dimmable CFL, found that the "bad breaker" wasn't bad anymore.

I was lucky that I managed to handle this one only with a phone conversation, and a follow up conversation.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I empathize with your yearning. In my working area the regulatory reality allows nothing but the 2017 NEC, as written and un-modified, to be used to do an approvable installation. 2002 thru 2017. Many here have pushed back against the regulators. . . sigh.

You bringing up a 30 yr old system, to me, brings up a very important strength of the GE single pole combination-type AFCI (CAFCI). Multiwire branch circuits can be protected with two single pole CAFCIs that are "handle-tied." For that matter, on a multiwire, I can handle-tie a plain old breaker and a CAFCI.

More than the rock solid minimum of nuisance trips, the GE CAFCI is the most versatile, way above and beyond anybody else's AFCI.

I never thought I'd see the day where we agreed on something. :lol:
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Our gfci/afci ocpd technology openly states within it's manufacturers instructions that they can not be megged. What that translates to,in electrical theory, is they can't take a punch , ie~ AIC . As most OCPD's arte installed across the 'line' , what does anyone expect of them say, in 30 yrs?
:bye:
Further, has there been a lockout feature for a ocpd, following the receptacle outlet of same feature?

Further still, did you know the chief operating componet in all these 'enhanced protective devices' are the same?

~RJ~
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Our gfci/afci ocpd technology openly states within it's manufacturers instructions that they can not be megged...

My Megger adjusts to 100 volts, which is plenty for finding leakage failures that trip A/GFCI's, and won't destroy GFCI devices.

For existing residential service work there's no need to crank the Megger up to 500+ volts.

We're checking insulation resistance at operating conditions, not Hi-Pot testing for NRTL certifications.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
My Megger adjusts to 100 volts, which is plenty for finding leakage failures that trip A/GFCI's, and won't destroy GFCI devices.

For existing residential service work there's no need to crank the Megger up to 500+ volts.

We're checking insulation resistance at operating conditions, not Hi-Pot testing for NRTL certifications.
That and a good GFCI should be able to take 1000 volts line to ground/neutral to ground anyway, no real point in testing line to neutral -which is what could cause some damage.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
My Megger adjusts to 100 volts, which is plenty for finding leakage failures that trip A/GFCI's, and won't destroy GFCI devices.

For existing residential service work there's no need to crank the Megger up to 500+ volts.

We're checking insulation resistance at operating conditions, not Hi-Pot testing for NRTL certifications.

Well, I suppose one could ask a A/GFCI manufacturer what levels are ok, but I doubt mother nature would comply Roger

As an aside, the manufactured home plant upstreet from me applies 550.17 Testing.w/o OCPD's

~RJ~
 
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