lockout/tagout

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j rae

Senior Member
WHAT IS THE PROCEDURES FOR KOCKOUT KEY ISSUE ??? I WENT TO ONE CLASS AND REMEMBER THEY SHOWED THAT YOU COULD HAVE 2 KEYS. ONE FOR THE WORKING EMPLOYE AND ONE COULD BE LOCKED IN A SECURE LOCK BOX. TRYING TO FIND THE REGULATION THAT COVERS THIS. ANY HELP !!!!! THANKS
 

PEDRO ESCOVILLA

Senior Member
Location
south texas
i went through a osha 30 not long ago, don't have the note book with me. i think that you are correct. one for the person working on the systyem that is locked out, one held in a secure place. also, i believe there is supposed to be a "log" maintained as to when you lock out, who locks out, who performs the work, and when it was taken off of lock out and reenergized. whew. google OSHA lock out tagout and you'll find it. good luck, stay safe:)
 

PEDRO ESCOVILLA

Senior Member
Location
south texas
i went through a osha 30 training not long ago, don't have the note book with me. i think that you are correct. one for the person working on the systyem that is locked out, one held in a secure place. also, i believe there is supposed to be a "log" maintained as to when you lock out, who locks out, who performs the work, and when it was taken off of lock out and reenergized. whew. google OSHA lock out tagout and you'll find it. good luck, stay safe
 

hockeyoligist2

Senior Member
It has been a long time since I took the full OSHA LOTO training. But if I remember correctly only one key and you must have full control of that key. That is also our company policy and we have retraining every year. Our locks have only one key and cannot be removed from it unless it is in the locked position.

Our safety manager gave us an infield test earlier this year and I was the only one of four that passed the test. He had all of us lock out a piece of equipment then act as if we were preparing to leave for the day. One guy locked his key in his tool box, the other two put the key on the dash of their truck and locked the truck. I put mine in my pocket and locked my truck. He walked over to me and held up four $50 gift certificates to Lowes. He asked me to explain why I should receive all four. Simple explanation, we have spare truck and tool box keys in a lock box. I got all four!

I learned something, from a personal experience, 20+ years ago that makes me agree 100% with the single key policy. I was helping install some new machinery in a textile mill. One of their maintenance guys was repairing another machine elsewhere in the plant and it was after a shift change. The second shift supervisor removed his lock with a key from a lock box and started the machine, thinking that the maintenance guy had left for the day. He lost three fingers.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
If I remember correctly, it is where one lock is used on the lockout/tagout device, but the key is in the lockbox which is locked with everyones lock (multiple locks) on it. It is used where a large number of locks on the lockout(s) is unfeasable or could introduce more hazards. I will have to look it up to be sure.
 
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WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
I couldn't find anything in the OSHA standard that would prohibit having more then one key for a lockout device. At our facilities, the authorized employee has a key, and the spare key is locked away in managements control. OSHA permits the lockout device can be removed by someone else other then the person who applied it under certain exceptions:

1910.147(e)(3)
Lockout or tagout devices removal. Each lockout or tagout device shall be removed from each energy isolating device by the employee who applied the device. Exception to paragraph (e)(3): When the authorized employee who applied the lockout or tagout device is not available to remove it, that device may be removed under the direction of the employer, provided that specific procedures and training for such removal have been developed, documented and incorporated into the employer's energy control program. The employer shall demonstrate that the specific procedure provides equivalent safety to the removal of the device by the authorized employee who applied it. The specific procedure shall include at least the following elements:

1910.147(e)(3)(i)
Verification by the employer that the authorized employee who applied the device is not at the facility:

1910.147(e)(3)(ii)
Making all reasonable efforts to contact the authorized employee to inform him/her that his/her lockout or tagout device has been removed; and

1910.147(e)(3)(iii)
Ensuring that the authorized employee has this knowledge before he/she resumes work at that facility.
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
NFPA70E:2009:120.2(E)(3)(g) said:
Whether keyed or combination locks are used, the key or combination shall remain in the possession of the individual installing the lock or the person in charge, when provided by the established procedure.

Never two keys to the lock. The gangbox is used as hillbilly1 described. The box has multiple lockout holes any of which keep the box locked. A common lock is put on the machine and its one and only key placed in the box. Then everyone who will work on the machine locks the box out.

If you get hit by a bus while your lock is on the machine then they'll have to follow procedure and cut your lock off.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
...If you get hit by a bus while your lock is on the machine then they'll have to follow procedure and cut your lock off.
That should never happen. You are not permitted to leave you lock on if you are not actually working on the equipment. It must be removed when you finish work for the day.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
That should never happen. You are not permitted to leave you lock on if you are not actually working on the equipment. It must be removed when you finish work for the day.

That is not necessarily true. We lockout many panels and circuits in new construction weeks and months at a time, that only applies to shift work such as plant maintenance. Osha does not mandate that the locks be removed after a shift, it only allows it if conditions permit.
 
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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
That is not necessarily true. We lockout many panels and circuits in new construction weeks and months at a time, that only applies to shift work such as plant maintenance. Osha does not mandate that the locks be removed after a shift, it only allows it if conditions permit.
Maybe it is because most of my work is in an operating plant that we follow the rules in 1910 and 1926. Even with totally new work I am not permitted to leave my lock on if I leave the site. If the work is not complete and in an unsafe condition I have to apply a "transfer" lock. These rules may be specific to the facility where I spend most of my time.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Maybe it is because most of my work is in an operating plant that we follow the rules in 1910 and 1926. Even with totally new work I am not permitted to leave my lock on if I leave the site. If the work is not complete and in an unsafe condition I have to apply a "transfer" lock. These rules may be specific to the facility where I spend most of my time.

Yeah, plant work is different, we have to keep people that do not work for us from turning on stuff that is not complete, especially when were not there. It probably is facility specific, especially if you have more than one shift, and more than one person or crew working on the same thing.
 

eric9822

Senior Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
Occupation
Electrical and Instrumentation Tech

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
OSHA has separate lockout/tagout rules for construction and general industry (bearing in mind that even though you work in a general industy facility, the construction rules apply if you are doing work for "construction, alteration and repair, including painting and decorating." That allows equipment to be locked out for days or months at a time, as someone remarked above.

In general industry, 1910.147 requires employers to have documented lockout procedures that protect employees. Paragraph (e)(3) describes procedures for removing locks when the employee who applied it went home at the end of the shift. It allows removal of the lock by the employer, provided all procedures have been followed. There's no requirement that the employee have the only key to his lock, but it's a good idea.

NFPA 70E also has a lockout procedure in Art. 120, Sect. D.
 

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
OSHA has separate lockout/tagout rules for construction and general industry (bearing in mind that even though you work in a general industy facility, the construction rules apply if you are doing work for "construction, alteration and repair, including painting and decorating." That allows equipment to be locked out for days or months at a time, as someone remarked above.

In general industry, 1910.147 requires employers to have documented lockout procedures that protect employees. Paragraph (e)(3) describes procedures for removing locks when the employee who applied it went home at the end of the shift. It allows removal of the lock by the employer, provided all procedures have been followed. There's no requirement that the employee have the only key to his lock, but it's a good idea.

NFPA 70E also has a lockout procedure in Art. 120, Sect. D.
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
... There's no requirement that the employee have the only key to his lock, but it's a good idea.

NFPA 70E also has a lockout procedure in Art. 120, Sect. D.

OSHA is still behind the NFPA70E.

NFPA70E:2009:120.2(E)(3)(g) said:
Whether keyed or combination locks are used, the key or combination shall remain in the possession of the individual installling the lock or the person in charge, when provided by the established procedure.
emphasis added

According to usage in most security protocols: If John and Pete have possession of a key then John does not have possession. The list is always considered to be a full enumeration of all parties unless you specifically state otherwise. So the statement John has possession of the key is wrong and John has possession of one of the keys is right. The forced enumeration helps to emphasize weaknesses in security. John has possession of one of the keys begs the question then who has the other keys? and thus enhances security.

Less precise language may be used among employees but not in the protocols.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I came across a lock last year that had a tag dated 1967, that was not fun figuring out if we could remove it. Turned out the guy retired in the early 80's.
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I came across a lock last year that had a tag dated 1967, that was not fun figuring out if we could remove it. Turned out the guy retired in the early 80's.

:rotflmao:

Might have been easier to disconnect the machine upstream and scrap it out. I mean, if it's been locked out that long :) when's the next time you'll miss it?
 
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