Spa GFCI Breaker Tripping

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Even in a 'normal' electrical installation the leakage current gradually increases over time.......
If the rate of rise of the leakage current is faster in the present case, than that in a 'normal' electrical installation,it would become a ground fault or a short circuit faster......

Just because it is normal for insulation to break down does not mean it is safe when it does.

Current flowing where it does not belong and proteting people from the effects of it is the whole intent of Class A GFCI protection.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I have been called on several GFCI issues on spas and hot tubs over the years.

In every single incident, there was a fault to ground. Most were the heaters, but I also found a leak dripping into an electric motor. I know that GFCI nuisance tripping exists, but so far I have never seen it happen on a spa or a hot tub circuit.

Finding the faults can get tricky, as water is usually involved and it likes to dry up on occasion, and that occasion us usually just before you get there with your test instruments.

I also troubleshoot indoor tripping. One of the best tools I have found is a portable GFCI used for extension cords. If the HO or EC is adamant that the GFCI device is the problem, and not the load, a trip of my portable unit is an easy way to convince them otherwise.

Hopefully anyone reading some of the other posts here will have enough common sense not to attempt to decrease the sensitivity of a GFCI in order to keep it from tripping, or worse, remove it altogether.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I already remarked a safety audit should be conducted before allowing for an increase in leakage current brought on,for example,by an increase in conductors length.........


Since the manufacturer may find the exact tripping leakage current of individual GFCI during the routine test of each GFCI in their factory,they may be able to supply one with necessary certificate to that effect,provided you make friends with them.......:D

Look, I really REALLY try to be fair in this forum to all participants, but I find some of your answers argumentative just for the sake of argument. Sure, MAYBE there is a TINY chance that the GFCI is out of tolerance, but that's like saying MAYBE that tidal wave coming at you is just a wake from big ship passing by. I consider it dangerous to assume the cause of a problem is protective equipment failure FIRST, it's far safer to assume it is doing it's job and protecting you from some other real problem. If you elimiate ALL OTHER potential issues first, then you can start to postulate on equipment failures.

And "increase in conductor length"? Do conductors grow after you install them? This WAS working, it began tripping over time. The conductor length did not change. The idea is, to me, very far fetched and again, argumentative with virtually no benefit for the original poster.

I respectfully urge you to please keep your responses on topic and be respectful of the fact that most of the participants are looking for practical solutions here, not lengthy tangential discussions about esoteric engineering principals. Mike Holt's is a forum primarily for discussion of issues pertaining to the US National Electric Code and although this specific forum is called Electrical Calculations/Engineering, I have always interpreted it as a place for those in the electrical trades in the US to post their problems and have Electrical Engineers and/or those with a lot of field experience provide helpful suggestions as they apply to their day to day work. I think it would behoove you to adopt a similar stance.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
I already remarked a safety audit should be conducted before allowing for an increase in leakage current brought on,for example,by an increase in conductors length.........


Since the manufacturer may find the exact tripping leakage current of individual GFCI during the routine test of each GFCI in their factory,they may be able to supply one with necessary certificate to that effect,provided you make friends with them.......:D
Something wrong with hot tub is making gfci trip.
Solution: leave tub like it is and find gfci that won't trip.

I'm the same way, once I say something I try to defend my statement rather than admit it was a silly thing to say.

Spend $500 fixing tub as opposed to reinventing the wheel.
 
He Wants to Keep The Problem/ Fix Symptom

He Wants to Keep The Problem/ Fix Symptom

This is a Classic case of us Electricans doing verbal battle with An Engineer that just plain has a differant way of looking at things and solving real life problems. Real life Electricians fix dangerous conditions and don't tamper with GFCI protection levels, leaving deadly conditions to kill people. I have never seen such alarming posts.

Moderator I would just close this thread. Before he give someone some ideas!
 
T

T.M.Haja Sahib

Guest
I Can't believe that I could cause this much misunderstanding and panic...........
 
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T

T.M.Haja Sahib

Guest
I do not say to keep the problem and fix the symptom.

First the problem could not be so far located.(The OP did not report any}

Second,if the rate of rise of leakage current due to the problem is more or less the same as that due to the usual aging of the electrical wiring,changing the 5 mA GFCI within its tolerance limits to see if the tripping stops is not a vice.
 
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