Bonding jumper options

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ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
Hello, working on fixing yet another satellite dish grounding issue. The service entrance is on the opposite side of the house of the dish installation, with the dish mounted on a 8 foot pole about 50 feet from the house (Line of site issues due to trees). The original installer (in 2004, I think) clamped a ground wire to the cold water pipe and put the grounding block inside the house. :happysad: I'm upgrading equipment and need to correct this issue. Based on reading sec 810,820, and parts of 250 the only viable solution I see is a 2nd ground rod.

Is insulated THWN wire acceptable? (It's actually a little cheaper than bare wire, go figure).

The jumper must be routed on the outside of the house? I'm only asking because it's a difference of 70 vs. 140 feet of wire and a lot of digging.

The scary part is the installer said it was acceptable to: A) run a 65 foot 10 AWG wire grounded at the main electrical box to the coax grounding block, or B) run 140 feet of 10 AWG wire around the house and connect to the ground rod.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Hello, working on fixing yet another satellite dish grounding issue. The service entrance is on the opposite side of the house of the dish installation, with the dish mounted on a 8 foot pole about 50 feet from the house (Line of site issues due to trees). The original installer (in 2004, I think) clamped a ground wire to the cold water pipe and put the grounding block inside the house. :happysad: I'm upgrading equipment and need to correct this issue. Based on reading sec 810,820, and parts of 250 the only viable solution I see is a 2nd ground rod.

Is insulated THWN wire acceptable? (It's actually a little cheaper than bare wire, go figure).

The jumper must be routed on the outside of the house? I'm only asking because it's a difference of 70 vs. 140 feet of wire and a lot of digging.

The scary part is the installer said it was acceptable to: A) run a 65 foot 10 AWG wire grounded at the main electrical box to the coax grounding block, or B) run 140 feet of 10 AWG wire around the house and connect to the ground rod.

Edited...
 
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ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
jxofaltrds, thanks for the links. Sections of that video are sticky posted on the forum, and I had reviewed those. Seems like there was extra commentary in the video you posted. All of the diagrams show the bonding jumper going around the house, so is it a safe assumption that the bonding wire must be run outdoors?

My house does not have an IBT block and the video mentions at 1:21:34 you can connect the GEC to the service equipment enclosure. I have a basement subpanel within 20 ft of the future coax ground block location. Am I correct in saying it doesn't qualify as a service equipment enclosure as neutral/ground are not bonded? Sure would make my day if it did (sigh).
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
At my own house, my electrical service is at one end of the house, and satellite, cabletv on the other end, someone drove a ground rod, but I ended up running a #6 and bonding that rod to my service GEC....

209ecm17fig1.jpg
 
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jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
jxofaltrds, thanks for the links. Sections of that video are sticky posted on the forum, and I had reviewed those. Seems like there was extra commentary in the video you posted. All of the diagrams show the bonding jumper going around the house, so is it a safe assumption that the bonding wire must be run outdoors?

My house does not have an IBT block and the video mentions at 1:21:34 you can connect the GEC to the service equipment enclosure. I have a basement subpanel within 20 ft of the future coax ground block location. Am I correct in saying it doesn't qualify as a service equipment enclosure as neutral/ground are not bonded? Sure would make my day if it did (sigh).

No not a safe assumption. I want to read a little before I post more.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
810.21(G) Inside or Outside Building. The bonding conductor or
grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted to be run
either inside or outside the building.

Now if you run it inside remember:

(E) Run in Straight Line. The bonding conductor or
grounding electrode conductor for an antenna mast or antenna
discharge unit shall be run in as straight a line as practicable.
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
810.21(G) Inside or Outside Building. The bonding conductor or<br>
grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted to be run<br>
either inside or outside the building.<br>
<br>
Now if you run it inside remember:<br>
<br>
(E) Run in Straight Line. The bonding conductor or<br>
grounding electrode conductor for an antenna mast or antenna<br>
discharge unit shall be run in as straight a line as practicable.
<br><br>Isn't that requirement for the GEC connecting the dsh to ground, and not the bonding jumper between the ground rods?
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
<br><br>Isn't that requirement for the GEC connecting the dsh to ground, and not the bonding jumper between the ground rods?

810.21 Bonding Conductors and Grounding Electrode
Conductors ? Receiving Stations. Bonding conductors
or grounding electrode conductors shall comply with
810.21(A) through (K).
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
In the 2008 code book for 810.21 and 810.21(G) I see:

810.21 Grounding Conductors - Receiving Stations. Grounding conductors shall comply with 810.21(A) through (K).

810.21(G) Inside or Outside Building. The grounding conductor shall be permitted to be run either inside or outside the building.

There is no mention of the bonding conductors. Does the 2011 code book state differently or am I misinterpreting 810.21?
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
I just discovered one final twist. My ground rod is so deep I can't dig down to it. It was probably put in place before the final grading are the house was completed. Splicing my jumper to the EGC is not an option (unless I've yet again mis-read the codes :dunce:) so do I just drive a new main ground rod?

BTW - Thanks to all for the responses.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
I just discovered one final twist. My ground rod is so deep I can't dig down to it. It was probably put in place before the final grading are the house was completed. Splicing my jumper to the EGC is not an option (unless I've yet again mis-read the codes :dunce:) so do I just drive a new main ground rod?

BTW - Thanks to all for the responses.

If you drive another rod you still need to bond to the old or

http://www.erico.com/products.asp?folderID=41

cadwell.jpg
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
Is disconnecting the EGC from the original ground rod not an option? I'd run a temporary jumper from the new rod to the EGC then cut the EGC, clean the wire, clamp it to the new rod, and remove the temp jumper.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Is disconnecting the EGC from the original ground rod not an option? I'd run a temporary jumper from the new rod to the EGC then cut the EGC, clean the wire, clamp it to the new rod, and remove the temp jumper.

You can remove the first rod but why?

Try this:

250.64(F)(3) Bonding jumper(s) from grounding electrode(s) shall
be permitted to be connected to an aluminum or copper
busbar not less than 6 mm ? 50 mm (1⁄4 in. ? 2 in.). The
busbar shall be securely fastened and shall be installed
in an accessible location.

PS it is the GEC not egc.
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
PS it is the GEC not egc.[/QUOTE said:
I knew that... :eek: (Still trying to comprehend the word praticable, too). Does the busbar in my main panel qualify as a valid location?

Main electrode ---> GEC <---> Main Panel neutral/ground busbar <---> 2nd GEC <--- 2nd Electrode
 

ungrounded

Member
Location
Oakland Co, MI
Hit "post" prematurely... It think it's supposed to be like this:

1st rod connects to bus bar
2nd rod connects to bus bar
Main panel connects to bus bar

Which to me looks like an IBT.
 
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ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I just discovered one final twist. My ground rod is so deep I can't dig down to it. It was probably put in place before the final grading are the house was completed. Splicing my jumper to the EGC is not an option (unless I've yet again mis-read the codes :dunce:) so do I just drive a new main ground rod?

BTW - Thanks to all for the responses.
What code section are you getting this idea from. You don't need to drive a new ground rod. You can bug onto the GEC going to the ground rod.

If it were not allowed there would be no requirement for the inter-system bonding whatchamacallit that nobody uses. Go ahead and get one and use it. You might be the first on your block. Pretty good bragging rights there.
 

gojoeba

Member
In our area the AHJ requires us to install an intersystem communications grounding block for all New Electric service installations and Service changes / upgrades.
 
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